CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Steve Cohen

Interview

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COOPER: That's the backdrop.

Now, one of the players, joining me tonight is Tennessee Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen, a member of the Judiciary Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): Nice to be here.

COOPER: Is this an impeachment inquiry in your mind?

COHEN: Well, we're calling it an impeachment investigation and it's probably a nuanced term, instead of impeachment inquiry. We've been doing this for awhile, having hearings that would lead up to this and we had the John Dean crowd, we had the Barbara McQuade crowd, and then we had Mueller.

And after you had Mueller, the next step is to get the actual players.

COOPER: Don McGahn --

COHEN: Don McGahn is the main player. Hope Hicks who lied to us about knowing about payoffs to Stormy Daniels and whatever. I call her Miss August. I don't remember her real name.

COOPER: She got -- you're saying Hope Hicks categorically lied.

COHEN: She said she knew nothing about those things, specific questions. She said she knew nothing about it. And then the papers that came out in the southern district said that was not true. And then we want to get into some Corey Lewandowski and that's what you do in an impeachment investigation is you put the parts together and study what happened and you determine whether or not there is sufficient evidence to impeach and should there be a duty to impeach.

I think there is. But I understand people wanting to see more direct evidence.

COOPER: Do you -- as we've been saying the next step is in the courts. It's possible that could drag out for a very long period of time and push this close to the election. Is there -- is there a time when it becomes too close to an election in your mind, or should that not play a role?

COHEN: Whether it should or shouldn't, I don't think it should, because I think it's our duty as Congress people when we believe strongly there is violations of our Constitution or have been. Individual one has done bad things in New York and he's done bad things in Washington. And in Washington, he's not individual one. He's the guy that hides behind the Office of Legal Counsel's declaration, he can't be indicted as long as he's in office.

So, you really have a president whose been named in two different cases as a criminal. He's a criminal. Lying Donald, that's what he is.

COOPER: So if that is the case and then why not immediately move to impeachment, to impeach if you believe that there is --

COHEN: I believe it but I think you need the votes and right now, we got a little over 100 Democrats who believe he should be impeached, but you need 218 people to impeach.

COOPER: To those that say Speaker Pelosi and others slow walking this hoping it sort of drags out and ultimately does not lead to impeachment, which some Democrats are concerned will fire up the president's base or in some way overtake the actual election and what the Democratic candidates talk about, what do you say?

COHEN: Well, I don't think -- I think the president is an expert at firing up the base. He knows what gets them whether it's four freshman, whether it's saying he was exonerated and he'll say that regardless if we don't come file impeachment, he'll say he was exonerated, nothing there. He'll call it a hoax. He'll say anything.

So, I think we need to help fire up our base and I think we need to do what is right. And you talk about the Emolument Clause. He's violated the Emolument Clause. There is a lawsuit about it. There is no question he's making money hand over fist, now he wants the G-7 to meet at one of his hotels. I mean, it's constantly, it's a grift.

This is the most in my opinion and a lot of other people's opinion, the most criminal group family to ever get in the White House. I mean, the Gambinos couldn't do anything more.

COOPER: But -- I mean, Gambinos were actually prosecuted and evidence was found. That has not occurred yet.

COHEN: Well, it has occurred. In the southern district, he was individual one and they chose not to -- he should be with Michael Cohen up the river wherever it is, and in this case, if it weren't -- first, he said -- Mueller said the elements were there and it was only OLC opinion, obviously counsel stopped him. He came back when he got to Intel Committee and said I phrased that wrong, blah, blah, blah.

Think about this, Anderson. He said he could be indicted after he leaves the presidency and he said that one of the things about getting the evidence and preserving it is you get the evidence when it's fresh in people's minds, their recollection is the best and they are the best witnesses and so you get that and you keep it for some time. You don't keep that if there is not a crime.

COOPER: So, do you believe Mueller's first answer to Congressman Lieu was essentially what Mueller actually felt? COHEN: It was what he felt and it's really what happened. I think he

was counseled by his associates, his attorneys and whoever else to say be consistent with the report.

[20:25:02] I mean, you wouldn't have made a point of getting this evidence and keeping it if it wasn't a crime.

COOPER: At what point would something become, OK, this goes to the courts and that takes however long. At what point would it actually become an impeachment process?

COHEN: Well, I think Judge Howell will act promptly. Judge Howell has been in charge of this investigation. She's the judge in charge. She'll be accused of being everything short of Benghazi when she makes her order. But I think she'll rule.

The law is on our side and we're basically investigative body looking into impeachment, and whether it's an impeachment investigation or inquiry, whatever it is. We're looking at impeachment and as a gentleman several scholars, Tribes' colleagues, Matt (ph), wrote everything is there and it's been -- we got Norm Eisen and Barry -- working with us and they have made sure that everything was about the first Article One. Use all of Article One powers and everything has been prefaced that way and that's the full Article One powers includes impeachment. That's what it's about.

COOPER: I want to bring in "USA Today" columnist Kirsten Powers. Also, CNN political analyst Kirsten Powers. I think she has a question for you, too.

Kirsten?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, yes. I mean,, I'm interested, Congressman, you keep saying there is a duty to impeach, but does that mean you impeach even if it harms the Democrats? If it would potentially help reelect the president? It sounds like you're saying you're willing to live with that, that if you believed it would help him get reelected, you would feel this is the duty of the Democrats.

Am I hearing that correctly?

COHEN: Well, I think it's the duty of any congressperson. When you see what happened and a person -- he's obstructed justice, not just in the Mueller report but obstructing justice now by telling everybody to avoid subpoenas that, don't turnover documents. This is just wrong and we need to stand up.

POWERS: No, I understand that.

COHEN: But I don't think it will hurt the Democrats.

I think the people when they see the proof and they see evidence come out and lay out the form, that they will see that this president is lawless and they will support people that are in favor of his impeachment and be against people that aren't and I really think that when the Democrats won in 2018, we won because people wanted to put a check and balance on this president, and they want to put not just a check and balance in 2020, they want to throw him out.

COOPER: But does -- does it -- I mean, that would -- an impeachment procedure would suck a lot of the oxygen out of the room for Democratic candidates out on the campaign trail. I mean, they would be talking about that a lot and, you know, those who are concerned about impeachment process believe that would essentially stop them or prevent or lesson the amount of time they spent talking about pocketbook issues and table top issues.

COHEN: That's an issue and I think Speaker Pelosi thinks we need to concentrate on health care, which we do. But we've been talking about health care and that's not the news. The news is impeachment of Trump.

When I'm at home and my district is heavily African-American, maybe the most in the country. My people tell me stay on him, stay on him. Don't give up. Don't let that man get away with this.

So, I think -- I know that's not representative necessarily of America but a lot of Americans feel that way. When you see the polls, college educated women big time don't think he's telling the truth, he's trustworthy. The only group we're messing with is us, the white men.

COOPER: Congressman Cohen, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

COHEN: You're welcome.

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