Fox News "Sunday Morning Futures" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Marsha Blackburn

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Senator, thanks for joining us.

SEN. MARSHA BLACKBURN, R-TENN.: Good to be with you.

PAYNE: All right, so the provocations have escalated. The saber-rattling has escalated. It is clear Iran is trying to turn Europe against us here.

And it feels President Trump has been pretty cool so far with all of this, but what's going to happen from here, because it feels like Iran is desperate?

BLACKBURN: They are desperate.

Bear in mind, their economy is shrinking 6 to 10 percent this year. Inflation is at 40 percent. And President Trump is doing exactly what he ought to be doing with keeping the pressure on, on those sanctions, and making certain that the regime realizes we know what they are up to.

They want to go back to enriching uranium. They want to be working to a nuclear weapon. And they want to go back to spreading terror. They are the largest state sponsor of terrorism.

Charles, I think we're doing exactly what we need to do, keeping the pressure on, saying, we're going to stay right on top of this, we're not going to give you an inch.

PAYNE: Right.

So it's interesting, because I'm hearing reports within Iran, because the leaders there have spent so much money, billions of dollars to sponsor terrorism, as all these economic woes, as you pointed out, have escalated...

BLACKBURN: That's right. Yes.

PAYNE: ... that there's enough resentment on the ground that, if we can just keep our cool and somehow show support for that, that may turn into something.

BLACKBURN: I think it may.

And bear in mind Iran is not a six-month or six-year problem. This is something that goes back to the '70s, with the shah being overthrown and the ayatollahs coming in.

And when I talk to friends who are Iranian immigrants and people who are a part of the Baha'i faith, what they tell me is, they are working desperately to support some of the Iranian people who really have a lot of problems with what this regime is doing, because they are suffering.

They are standing in line trying to buy things. The pressure is having an effect. Iran knows that. They know their people are suffering. They know the country is suffering. And for us to keep the pressure on, this maximum pressure campaign, that is exactly what we should do.

PAYNE: What's going to happen with our European allies, though? They have been really quiet, I would say ominously quiet. There had been talk about them trying to subvert the economic system in place right now so they can continue to do business with Iran.

Where are they? Because in every escalation that we have seen since -- during the Trump administration, all the critics say, get our European allies on board before we forge ahead.

I never see them get on board.

BLACKBURN: I -- I think that they wait for us to lead from the front. That is one of the lessons we learned through the Obama years, that leading from behind doesn't work.

And our allies want to know that we are with them, so that they feel free to be with us. Our enemies need to know that they need to fear us.

Now, as we look at what is happening in Iran, I think you have to look at who is working in conjunction with them. Look at what China is doing. Look at what Russia is doing. Look at what's happening in North Korea.

And then you have to ask, is this the new axis of evil? Of course, I think you put those four countries together, and it probably is.

They do not wish us well.

PAYNE: Right.

BLACKBURN: We have to keep the focus on, who are the bad guys here? And we know who they are.

PAYNE: I'm glad you brought up China. And I want to switch to that.

But I do want to also point out, I have read that you still are holding out hopes, though, for ultimately a diplomatic solution to Iran.

BLACKBURN: Yes, absolutely, I'm holding out hopes for a diplomatic solution.

And, you know, the thing is, is, we know that Iran realizes they're not going to have the markets for their oil product. That puts more pressure on their economy, which is already shrinking.

PAYNE: Right.

BLACKBURN: That is their big export. We know that this enriching uranium, they think that they can taunt us, if you will, with that.

They have been enriching uranium. Donald Trump has been very consistent in saying, stop the spread of terrorism and make certain that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon. And that is the goal, and we're going to continue to support that.

PAYNE: On China, we have had a reset, if you will, with the trade negotiations...

BLACKBURN: Right.

PAYNE: ... but China using tougher language this time around. But at least we know it's not a complete restart. We're not -- it's not a game of Monopoly, where we go back to go and not collect $200.

There was a 150-page agreement. It was seven volumes, seven chapters. So, there's a blueprint of sorts. Does that give us any hope that maybe this can be resolved, and certainly resolved in a timely fashion?

BLACKBURN: It does give me hope that there is a way forward here.

And, of course, Gordon Chang is the one who is going to weigh in some with China. He's such an expert on that.

Here's the thing I think that's important, restarting the sales of the ag products, working through that. And President Trump is to be commended for that.

Here is where we need to be watchful. In my opinion, it's Huawei. We do not need to let Huawei get into building out these 5G networks, not for us, not for any of our allies because of the dangers there.

China is -- they're building a spy network. They want to win the cyber- war.

PAYNE: Sure.

BLACKBURN: And what we have to do is continue to say to them, you cannot empower Huawei, which is state-run, regardless of what they say. We know it is state-run. And it is their mechanism for spying.

So is there a way forward? Yes, there is. China knows that they are in better shape if they are at the table than if they are not at the table.

PAYNE: On Huawei, though, for a lot of Americans, they had never even heard of Huawei until this whole thing came up.

BLACKBURN: Right.

PAYNE: And then the threat of Huawei has only become apparent to people just in the last few months. And now it's a critical piece in this whole - - in this...

BLACKBURN: Yes, but, Charles, here's the thing.

When I was in the House, some of us had amendments to appropriations bills that would block Huawei from selling to the U.S. military and the U.S. government, because we knew they were embedding that spyware.

PAYNE: Right.

BLACKBURN: That was a known fact.

So these American companies that are selling to Huawei need to stop that. And we do not need to do anything that is going to encourage their cell phone sales. We don't know...

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: So, you don't like American ship companies, for instance, selling to Huawei...

BLACKBURN: No.

PAYNE: ... even if we're going to block them from being part of our 5G network?

BLACKBURN: Not at all. Why would we do something that would encourage their innovation?

Because Huawei is building out a network that's embedded with spyware, and it doesn't matter if it is financial data, if it is artificial intelligence or A.V. networks, autonomous vehicle networks. Why would you give them the ability to shut down those networks?

So, no, let's eliminate them from our network.

PAYNE: I know that, in the tech world, they are telling the administration they are working on technology, so that there won't be checkpoints where they could usurp networks and take them over.

BLACKBURN: That's right.

PAYNE: We will see.

But it feels like this is going to be really probably ultimately what it comes down to.

Senator, please stay with us.

BLACKBURN: Yes.

PAYNE: Coming up, folks, new details on the DOJ's general inspector's probe into the alleged government's surveillance of President Trump's campaign.

Key witnesses now coming forward in the late stage of this investigation -- that and more straight ahead.

Also, be sure to join the discussion on Twitter and Instagram @SundayFutures, also @CVPayne. I'm pretty active on Twitter. And we're pretty active there.

So, stay with us, as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Welcome back.

An update on a story that we have been following closely on this show for almost two years now, alleged government surveillance of Donald Trump's 2016 campaign.

FOX News now learning that key witnesses have come forward at the 11th hour of this investigation by the Justice Department's inspector general.

We're back with Senator Marsha Blackburn, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

You know, it's -- Senator, it's going to be really interesting how this all plays out. After two years of building up Mueller's reputation, the Mueller report, I think it was a dry hole, to be quite frank with you.

We're not hearing a lot about the I.G. report, but I think it could be blistering.

BLACKBURN: It is going to come out. It is about time for it to come out.

And, look, what people want to know, when I'm talking to Tennesseans, they want to know, how in the world did they use a fake dossier to get a FISA warrant, and then we have been in this charade of a two-year investigation?

And people want answers to that. They want to see, what chain of communication took place that actually triggered this? How was it that a FISA judge ended up doing this, when it wasn't a credible document?

And people want to know the answer to that. I think having some of these key witnesses finally break and say that they are going to come toward and tell what they know is going to be very helpful to this.

We know that the Democrats have been very nervous about this, and probably they ought to be pretty nervous about this.

PAYNE: They should be nervous about it, but I think the American public should be optimistic about it...

BLACKBURN: Yes.

PAYNE: ... because maybe we can figure this out.

If you have potentially rogue agents, you know, first a faulty document, a lie by the -- for the most part, that can trigger something to this level, but people still want to know just what degree of interference or favoritism the FBI's animosity towards President Trump and then candidate Trump played.

BLACKBURN: Yes.

PAYNE: What role did any folks in the Obama administration play? How far up the food chain did this go? Who knew about this?

These are really important questions. Do you think we can get answers to them?

BLACKBURN: I think we will get answers from them, because people are demanding them.

And, as I said, if you were on the road with me in Tennessee, this would be one of the main things that you would hear. People talk a lot about the economy. The economy is doing great. And they are happy there.

They want to be certain that we're watching Iran and our enemies and rebuilding our military, that we're securing the southern border. And then they will say, and you better find out how they ended up using the FBI to spy on an American family and on an American campaign.

They cannot believe that this happened. They feel like they're reading some kind of novel, and that this couldn't possibly have happened. But now that it's been confirmed that, yes, indeed, it did, it is, how did it happen, and where is the corruption within the Department of Justice and the FBI?

PAYNE: And maybe some accountability.

BLACKBURN: Right.

PAYNE: We went to break teasing our Twitter handles. We talked about you and I both being on Twitter.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: Conservative censorship in social media and technology...

BLACKBURN: Yes.

PAYNE: ... is something that you are very passionate about. Where are we going there? Because it feels like it's actually gotten worse, not better.

BLACKBURN: It does continue to escalate.

And what we are looking at -- we just recently did a hearing on these algorithms, looking at that, not only for social media, but also for artificial intelligence. And how do engineers actually nuance or how do they inform building those algorithms, so they tilt against those that are on the conservative side?

PAYNE: Right.

BLACKBURN: And we're going to do some more work on this in Judiciary Committee, as we look at putting in place privacy and data security rules, looking at antitrust, looking at censorship, because, Charles, now you have the virtual space underpinning literally every industry, and so much of Americans' transactional life.

They want to make certain that, as I say, their virtual you is protected and private unto them...

PAYNE: Right.

BLACKBURN: ... and that they give the permission to transfer or for a third party to look at their personally identifying information. So they want to opt-in ability on that.

PAYNE: Well, I think that's something that should be apolitical.

BLACKBURN: Yes.

PAYNE: I think that's something all Americans care about.

But something became political this week that in a million years I wouldn't have believed, the Nike-Betsy Ross flag controversy.

BLACKBURN: Oh, my goodness gracious, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: You wrote an op-ed. I just want to share some of what you wrote in your op-ed on Nike.

You said to Nike: "There are millions of us who would really like to wear a Betsy Ross running shoe and celebrate what women have done for freedom and freedom's cause. There's such a thing as founding mothers. Why don't you choose to honor them?"

I mean, I just got goose bumps reading that. How -- how -- I don't know how this became a controversy and why Nike blinked on this.

BLACKBURN: It is phenomenal that they would have blinked on this.

Betsy Ross was an abolitionist. She is one of our founding mothers.

PAYNE: She was an anti-slavery Quaker.

BLACKBURN: That's correct. That's correct. And she was a pro-suffrage for women.

And then you look at this with the flag that she made or designed or -- it was such a symbol of our revolution, of seeking freedom and fighting for freedom's cause. It is amazing to me that, as we approach the 100-year anniversary of women suffrage, and you have that flag that was created by one of these founding mothers...

PAYNE: Right.

BLACKBURN: ... and then they say, we're not going to push this to market because someone has an objection?

I think it's time for some history lessons, and we need to celebrate these women who have been fighting for freedom and freedom's cause.

PAYNE: Yes, celebrate these women. You can't change history. And the bottom line is, I think we should be proud of how we have evolved as a nation, not look back and think and with this type of scorn that's being heaped on these things. But you are right.

BLACKBURN: You know, whether it's Abigail Adams or Betsy Ross or Susan B. Anthony or Carrie Chapman Catt, there are women who have so solidly stood for the cause of freedom, and I'm ready to celebrate their good work and recognize those works.

PAYNE: I celebrate that you are in studio. I always appreciate you coming on.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: And you are absolutely one of my favorite politicians.

BLACKBURN: Oh, I appreciate that. It's always good to...

PAYNE: It is a short list, but you are one of my favorites.

(LAUGHTER)

BLACKBURN: I appreciate that. Good to be with you.

PAYNE: Senator Blackburn, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

BLACKBURN: Good to be with you. Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source