Fox News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Michael Bennet

Interview

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Joining me now from Denver, Colorado, senator and 2020 Democratic candidate, Michael Bennet.

It's a pleasure to have you here, sir.

BENNET: Thank you, Dana, for having me.

PERINO: This morning, ABC News put out a new poll that the president will probably be really happy to see. His approval numbers up to 47 percent. If you look year over year, last year, it was only 42 percent of April 2019. Now up to 47 percent -- I'm sorry, April 2019, just three months ago.

The economy as well, doing very well, 3.7 percent unemployment rate, 224,000 jobs added.

And I wonder as you look at this as a 2020 candidate that wants to run against him, what was your economic message be, that things aren't as good as people think they are?

BENNET: Well, I'd say, first of all, that we are in the tenth year of an economic recovery that started in 2009. We'd have job increases for that entire period of time. It's a record, and I will grant that the president hasn't screwed it up in the first two and a half years that he's been president.

He inherited an economy that he described as the worst economy in American history. It's hard to believe in two and a half years, he's made it so dramatically better and, of course, when you look at the trends, they are the same but they were in 2009 as they are today.

The point about whether the economy is working for most people, I think that is a valid point. Colorado has one of the strongest economies on this planet, yet most of the people that I meet can't afford some combination of housing, health care, higher education, or early childhood education. They can't afford a middle-class life, and the families that I knew when I was superintendent of Denver public schools increasingly can't see themselves, can't -- no matter how hard they work, can't seem to get their families out of poverty.

So, there are two economies in this country. The wealthiest Americans for the last 40 years have done really well and everybody else has done pretty poorly, at least based on our historical norms. That's not something you can I'm Donald Trump for. I said the same thing when President Obama was president.

PERINO: So, then --

BENNET: But we have to address it.

PERINO: OK. So, how would you do that?

BENNET: Well, I think, first of all, we need an economy that when there's economic growth, it grows for everybody. I think the way of achieving that is by increasing our investments in infrastructure and education and R&D. We are spending 35 percent less than our parents and grandparents spent on us, while we're racking up $20 trillion, going to $30 trillion of debt. So, we're saying to the next generation, not only will we not invest in you. We are going to make you pay back this debt that we're not going to pay back.

I think we should reverse the Trump tax cuts and give working people in this country real tax relief, which they desperately need and they did not get.

PERINO: But what did you -- what did you think that -- when people see the economy as it is now regardless of the trends from the past ten years, but into a half years since the tax cuts and since the president has been in office, the economy has done much better. So, if the reelection effort for President Trump turns on the economy, how do you get people to realize that you would make it better for them?

BENNET: First of all, I don't think is been much better, Dana. It's been -- it's been what it was. It's been fine, it's been good and it's improved. So, it has improved, just as an improved from 2009 when Barack Obama took over.

What we don't need it, in my view, I think it is a president that is so at war with American tradition. We don't need a president who doesn't believe in the rule of law. We don't need a president who doesn't believe in freedom of the press. We don't need a president who doesn't believe in the independence of the judiciary. We don't need a president who believes he is above the law, that he can do by executive order what Congress doesn't do.

I mean, the list of things is so long. What amazes me is the stuff that he does, whether it's coddling a dictator in North Korea or laughing with Putin about Russia's attacks on our democracy, that stuff that if Barack Obama did one of it, he would have been indicted 24 hours a day on Fox News and President Trump is applauded.

I happen to think he is way outside of the mainstream of conventional American political thought, whether it's Democratic or Republican, and that if we are going to have any hope of not being the first generation of Americans to leave less opportunity, not more, to our kids and our grandkids, if we're going to have any hope of restoring America's role in the world, he needs to be a one term president.

DANA PERINO, ANCHOR: So if I could just press --

BENNET: Whether the economy is doing well or it's not doing well.

PERINO: If I could just press -- if I could just press you on two things.

Well, I won't press you on -- on -- on the -- on the freedom of the press. Like, he gets frustrated with the press but he hasn't tried to prevent them from being able to do their jobs.

But on the rule of law, where you think that he is not for the rule of law?

BENNET: I think -- first of all, on the freedom of the press, the fact that he hasn't dealt with the fact that Saudi Arabia killed a journalist, and -- and he said what a serious thing it would be if it turned out it was true that MBS was behind it. And our intelligence agencies said it's behind it, and he does nothing except go there and coddle MBS, that is an illustration of what American values are. I think he's tried to intimidate the press here in the United States. I think he's been above the rule of law on the wall, you know. He declared an emergency to build his wall, his $6 billion wall.

PERINO: But the institutions --

BENNET: Which, by the way, Dana, Mexico was supposed to pay for it. And while we spent seven months consuming the American people's time over his $6 billion wall, China was building fiber-optic cable 3,500 miles from -- connecting Africa to Latin America to China so they can --

PERINO: No, I get that.

BENNET: They -- they can increase their surveillance there (ph). But what are we doing here?

PERINO: Well, let me -- let me ask you about -- then let me ask you about immigration, because you were the only -- one of the -- I think one of two people that did not raise you hand in the debate that MSNBC hosted asking about decriminalizing the border. I mean clearly you think that there is a problem on the border and that border security is really important. And let me read to you from Jeh Johnson, who's the former DHS secretary for President Obama. And he said this about the Democrats. He said, "that is tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders. That is unworkable, unwise, and does not have the support of a majority of American people or the Congress."

Do you feel like the Democratic Party has gone so far left that people look at President Trump's position as being much more reasonable?

BENNET: Two -- two points here. Two points here. One, Barack Obama was able to enforce that law without separating children from their parents at the border. Something that has -- has -- has -- has received the kind --

PERINO: But that wasn't -- but they did have to do that if they came over at -- they did have to do that.

BENNET: I'm sorry?

PERINO: Well, they did have to separate families and -- and --

BENNET: No. The did -- the -- the Obama administration didn't do it and -- and that's why the Trump administration has received condemnation on this point from Republican and Democratic members of Congress. And the other point I'd make is, I was part of the gang of eight that wrote the immigration bill in 2013 that passed the Senate with 68 votes. It was a bipartisan bill. Donald Trump has said nothing -- nothing good about it. He's only said bad things about it.

That bill had $46 billion of border security in it. His 6 billion for his - - his ineffective wall is a joke compared to what we had. We had 21st century technology. You could see every inch of the border.

PERINO: OK, so when what -- as president, how would you -- as president then how would you get Congress to actually pass something?

BENNET: I would put something in front of Congress that's actually popular with the American people. Donald Trump could not get his wall through a Republican majority House and Senate. And now of course he can't get it through a divided House and Senate.

I would bring back the Gang of Eight bill, updated for -- for the three years that have gone by, and I would add to it work that we need to do on the refugee crisis on the border.

The president is acting like we are some weak, pathetic country. We have the ability to treat human beings humanly. We have the ability to lead our hemisphere in a discussion about how to deal with this refugee crisis --

PERINO: Well --

BENNET: And what refuges we're going to take --

PERINO: Given --

BENNET: And what refuges others are going to take. And we have the -- we have the responsibility to secure our border and to do what needs to be done internally.

PERINO: But do you think that the president is not saying that? I mean he is saying specifically job number one is to secure the border.

BENNET: I think he's saying it. I think --

PERINO: Would you support --

BENNET: I -- I --

PERINO: The changes in the asylum law that he is suggesting?

BENNET: I think that he's saying it. I think he's not doing it. I -- he goes down there and stands next to what he calls steel slats that were built during the Obama administration or at the beginning of the Trump administration. We --

PERINO: But let's focus on the asylum law for a moment. Like, would you support the changes there?

BENNET: I haven't seen a proposal. So I -- I can't give you an answer on that.

I do believe that we need to lead a discussion in the hemisphere about how to deal humanely with other human beings in this country. We -- as I said earlier, we are a strong and powerful country. We are supposed to lead humanity, not make our border into a symbol of nativist hostility.

PERINO: All right.

BENNET: That should be an embarrassment for everybody.

Our -- the symbol of this country as the Statue of Liberty, not Donald Trump's pathetic attempt to build a wall, which he's been unable to do because he can't even get Republicans to support it.

PERINO: And he hasn't been talking about the wall for a while. He's asking the Congress to actually help him pass the asylum law because he thinks that's a problem.

But let me move on to Iran, because you're on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

BENNET: Yes.

PERINO: We have this word today that Iran is saying we're going to blow right past those limits that were on us.

What would you do as president at this point?

BENNET: I -- I -- I would --

PERINO: Would you try to rejoin the original deal?

BENNET: I -- well, I'd try to make it a better deal, but I that it was good that we had a deal.

Donald Trump -- you know, I -- I will stipulate to you, Dana, that everything that -- well, not everything that he says -- I will stipulate that Iran is conducting all kinds of malevolent acts in -- in the region, which are dangerous for us and dangerous for the Israelis. And that they need to be stopped.

But when Donald Trump became president, Iran was no longer two to three years from breaking out to a nuclear weapon -- or two to three months from breaking out to a nuclear weapon, which is where they were when I voted for the Iran deal. They were more than a year from being able to broke out -- break out to a nuclear weapon based on our intel --

PERINO: Right.

BENNET: Based on what the Israelis said. Now they're -- now they're enriching again.

So this idea that somehow we're more safe if Iran is conducting its malevolent, conventional acts in the region and they're able to backstop it with a threat of a nuclear weapon doesn't make any sense. And now the administration is saying our goal is to get Iran a year away from breaking out. That's where we were.

PERINO: Well not -- where they are now is where they would be -- would have been at the end of that deal. But let's -- I do -- we've spent a lot of time --

BENNET: That's true. That -- that --

PERINO: Talking about President Trump.

BENNET: That's true, Dana, but that is not -- that is not where they would have been if the deal had stayed in place. If the deal had stayed in place --

PERINO: Well --

BENNET: They would be a year from being able to break out from a nuclear weapon.

PERINO: Oh, I see. OK.

BENNET: Then --

PERINO: Let's talk about you. We've spent too much time talking about Donald Trump.

BENNET: OK.

PERINO: Let's talk about you.

You are in a primary fight against a couple dozen other Democrats. You have fundraising numbers at about -- that are a little bit lower than others because, as we all know, you got in the race a little bit late because you successfully fought back against prostate cancer, for which we're all grateful that you were able to do that.

BENNET: Thank you. Thank you.

PERINO: And so -- but I'm wondering, you're heading into this -- the possibility, I don't know if it's confirmed yet if you're on that second debate.

Is there some way that you can break away to -- to really make a difference so that you could be up there in maybe the top five?

BENNET: I -- I hope so. I think that the American people, for all the reasons that I said, need a president that's actually going to conform to our values as a country. And I think we need, among other things, somebody who's going to tell the truth to the American people.

We have incredible challenges that we face, Dana. We've had 40 years of no economic mobility for the -- most of the American people. We've got a public education system --

PERINO: But you do have the highest level of African-American and Latino employment that we've had in the country now. I mean is that worth something?

BENNET: It's -- everybody that's got a job is worth something. But we have the -- the greatest income inequality that we've seen since 1928. The wealth gap between African-American and Latino families is much greater than it was even before we went into the great --

PERINO: And do you think that's an education issue, as a former --

BENNET: Even before we went into --

PERINO: As a former education minister, do you think that education is the issue?

BENNET: I think partly it -- I -- I do. I -- I think a big part of it is that our education system is reinforcing the income inequality we have rather than liberating people from it. The best protector of the quality of somebody's education is the income that their parents made. That is completely un-American in my view but it is where we find ourselves, which is why I think rather than debating whether we should have had busing 50 years ago, we should be having a debate about what we're doing to transform America's schools for the 21st century so that everybody, whether they're born into poverty or not, has a shot at the American dream. That's no longer true.

PERINO: Well, since you -- since you brought up busing, let me just ask you one thing. You know, I -- I -- I went to Denver Public Schools. You were the superintendent there.

BENNET: Yes. Yes, I know.

PERINO: Denver was the first city that had -- that tried to integrate the schools through busing. I know that. I was in the fourth grade when I had to be bused 25 miles across the city. I know you're talk -- you don't think we should be talking about that, but your opponents in the Democratic primary, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, brought this back up and now there's a question -- a last one to you -- do you think that busing should be something on the table again?

BENNET: I think that -- I -- I -- I think that if -- if districts want to do it, they should be able to do it if they want, but I don't think there's a district in the country that's going to want to do it. People don't want to cross town to get a high quality school. They want a high quality school in their -- in -- where they live. And that's what we have to try to do. That's what we've tried to do in Denver. Frank -- in -- there was a study that came out from Stanford University last week that said that kids in Denver are growing so much faster than kids around this state, it's as if we've added 60 days to each school year in Denver.

PERINO: That might --

BENNET: It's possible to make a difference.

PERINO: Yes, well, that might get some -- some other school administrators to look into Denver indeed.

BENNET: I hope. I hope.

PERINO: Senator Bennet, thank you. I know that you love being in Colorado.

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