Fox News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Tom Cotton
Interview
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Senator, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday".
COTTON: Chris, thanks for having me on.
WALLACE: Last Sunday, you called for a military strike against Iran after it had attacked two foreign ships near the Strait of Hormuz.
Here you are.
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COTTON: Unprovoked attacks on commercial shipping warrant of retaliatory military strike against the Islamic Republic of Iran.
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WALLACE: Well, this week, as we all know, I ran went after and shot down a U.S. Navy and President Trump first ordered and then called off a retaliatory strike.
What do you think of the president's move?
COTTON: Chris, obviously, I think retaliatory strikes were warranted when we're talking about foreign vessels on the high seas. I think they're warranted against an American unmanned aircraft.
What I see is Iran steadily marching up the escalation chain. It started down with threats, it went into an attack on vessels in ports, went into attack on vessels at sea, now to unmanned American aircraft. I fear that if Iran doesn't have a firm set of boundaries drawn around this behavior, we are going to see an attack on a U.S. ship or U.S. manned aircraft.
This is exactly what we saw in the 1980s, where Iran for four years was allowed to attack ships on the high seas, over 190 attacks in the Iran-Iraq war. Ron Reagan finally lost his patients after one of those mines hit a U.S. Navy frigate and then he launched one of the largest naval engagements since World War II.
I hope that that's not the case. I hope it is not the case. I hope the president's statement on Friday and a statement yesterday that we will not tolerate any kind of attack on the American service member anywhere in the region gets through to the leaders in Tehran. I worry, though, that they have a long history of marching up this escalation ladder anytime they face a kind of strategic challenge they face right now, thanks to the administration's maximum pressure campaign.
WALLACE: You were very critical of President Obama's failure to enforce his redline against Syria after a chemical attack, saying that it raised questions about how strong U.S. security commitments and statements by the president were. President Trump has repeatedly gone after Mr. Obama on the same thing. Take a look.
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TRUMP: When he didn't cross that line after making the threat, I think that set us back a long ways not only in Syria but in many other parts of the world because it was a blank threat.
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WALLACE: Does this run the risk of being President Trump's red line moment?
COTTON: No. Chris, I see some differences between the two situations. First, the President Obama's Syria policy was a mess. Second, he himself in his words drew that red line and then he failed to enforce it.
Here, President Trump's Iran policy is working. It's probably the first time in 40 years where we have the initiative against Iran. One reason they are lashing out is because of a maximum pressure campaign that has driven their economy to near depression levels of activity.
Second, he had not drawn any such red line in his own language. He didn't take military strikes last week and overt or conventional fashion but he has said very clearly that we will not tolerate -- Iran or its proxies making any type of attack on American service members or citizens in the region. And he's also said that major sanctions are going to be added tomorrow, which is only going to increase the sanctions they already face, which is one very positive results so far of the maximum pressure campaign.
WALLACE: Iran now says, I mean, I think it's fair to say, attacks on ships and drones, serious as they are, are kind of the sideshow. The big deal is the Iran nuclear deal and Iran now says that it is going to violate that deal this week, that it is going to exceed the limit on its stockpile of enriched uranium and that perhaps it is going to violate the limit on uranium, go from 3-1/2 percent enriched, up to 20 percent, putting it closer to a nuclear weapon.
If it does that and gets closer to a nuclear weapon, what should the U.S. response be? And are you at all concerned that the president's back-and- forth this week where he ordered an attack and then called it back, may perhaps unrealistically, encourage the mullahs to think they can get away with that?
COTTON: Well, Chris, I'd say, about Iran's threat to enrich uranium to levels beyond what is permitted in the nuclear deal, it's really going to be a question for the Europeans whether they want to continue the charade of pretending that Iran may continue to obey those limits and they can engage in some kind of trade with Iran and bypass American sanctions. I would say to those European leaders that given the fact that the president exercised restraint in this last week, they should view that as an opening to double down with the United States on those sanctions if Iran bypasses those enrichment limits.
But just like an attack on an American ship or any harm to American service member or citizen in the region, the president has also been very clear he will not allow Iran to approach a nuclear weapon.
WALLACE: President Trump as you point out says that he's going to impose major sanctions on Iran starting tomorrow. But he also says that if Iran were to change its way of doing things, that it can turn into an economic powerhouse. Take a look at what the president said.
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TRUMP: If Iran wants to become a wealthy nation again, become a prosperous nation, we'll call it, let's make Iran great again. Does that make sense? Make Iran great again. It's OK with me.
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WALLACE: Now, that's the same offer he made to North Korea that if they gave up their nuclear weapons that he would turn them into an economic or help them become an economic powerhouse. Do you really think that repressive regimes like North Korea and Iran are going to give up their nuclear ambitions in return for the blessings of western capitalism?
COTTON: Chris, I'll probably adhere here to what Ronald Reagan once said about the Soviet Union, trust but verify. The president's policy as announced by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in his 12-point speech last year was very clear, the administration is not going to renegotiate the Obama era nuclear deal. They are not going to put a few new provisions on it. They want Iran to change its campaign of terror throughout the region and drop its imperial ambitions.
So, that means things like stopping terrorist groups in rebel groups that are trying to overthrow legitimate governments supporting military proxy forces in Iraq. If they will adhere to those 12 points that Secretary Pompeo laid out on behalf of Donald Trump and negotiate a genuine and verifiable into their nuclear program, then we can have a different kind of relationship with Iran and that would be very much to the benefit of the Iranian people as the president laid out yesterday.
WALLACE: But it would seem to me in any case that the prospects that Iran -- you're basically talking about the Islamic regime completely changing its colors, completely changing the way it acts. You've got the Iran Revolutionary Guard, you've got hard-liners in Tehran. Do you think the prospect of American capitalism is going to change that?
COTTON: That's why I say a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted when you're dealing with regimes like the ayatollahs. But let's be clear, Chris, Secretary Pompeo didn't ask them to turn into a Western European style parliamentary democracy. He asked him to behave like a normal nation. To stop committing acts of terrorism and supporting terror groups, stop trying to overthrow governments in the region, stop attacking shipping on the high seas. Those are very reasonable request that we expect of any civilized and normal nation.
WALLACE: Speaking of North Korea, the regime there says that President Trump sent a letter to Chairman Kim that he has received over the weekend and that Kim, quote, will contemplate the interesting content of the letter. Really the same question. How optimistic are you that Iran will ever agree to denuclearize through diplomacy?
COTTON: Again, Chris, I think healthy skepticism is warranted here. What we should do with Iran is exactly what the president has done with North Korea since Kim Jong-un made unreasonable demands on the Hanoi Summit in February, and the president rightly walked away from that summit. We should keep the maximum pressure campaign on, give them no quarter, give them the opportunity to begin to act like a normal nation and try to seek relief in return for tangible and verifiable commitments, but healthy skepticism is warranted any time you deal someone like Kim Jong-un or the ayatollahs.
WALLACE: President Trump has also delayed a round up that was supposed to begin today of migrant families that have already been given their deportation orders. He says he is giving Congress two weeks to work out and reform the asylum system and otherwise, he will impose the round up.
I don't have to tell you, you have a little bit of a look on your face. You talk about healthy skepticism, Congress isn't going to reform the asylum system in two weeks, sir.
COTTON: So, Chris, I will just say, healthy skepticism is warranted for dealing with Democrats when it comes to immigration. Let's just think about the Democrats' position here, Chris. These are people who have claimed asylum in our country. They've had their day in court. They've had their plans rejected, and now, they face a valid and final order of removal.
If they can't deport people like that, who can they deport? That's when the Democrats' position ultimately comes back to, in essence, open borders.
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WALLACE: So, what do you think of the president's decision to hold off on the roundup of these people who should be deported?
COTTON: Two weeks for a couple thousand families is not going to make a big difference, and if we could get a genuine law passed through Congress that would address the asylum reforms that we need to start the crisis at the border, that would be a good thing. But, again, I go back to this point, if you can't deport an illegal alien as a valid and final order of removal that's adjudicated by an immigration judge, who can you deport?
WALLACE: Finally, you have written, as we mentioned at the beginning, a new book called "Sacred Duty: A Soldier's Tour At Arlington National Cemetery". What did you learn about your tour of duty at Arlington guarding the Tomb of the Unknowns, dealing with Section 60 which, of course, is the area where the people who died in the global war on terrorism are buried? What did you learn from that experience?
COTTON: Well, it was a true honor to serve at Arlington National Cemetery when I did. And to be back at the cemetery last year with the young soldiers, some of whom you're profiling on your show later today, who were honoring our fallen heroes.
But given this fact that we're on a political show, I'll just say that one thing I say when I'm in Arlington is the reverence, the respect, the gratitude, even the love that everyone has, no matter their political views or partisan affiliation for our fallen heroes and for the young soldiers who honor. You know, Arlington was born in the ashes of the Civil War, the most divisive time in our country, and I think it's a good reminder that no matter how divided our time seems to be today, that they're still many things that we hold in common and hold dear as a country that unites us as Americans.
WALLACE: Senator Cotton, thank you. Thanks for your time. And as you point out, we have a terrific story about a power player at the end of the show, about a unit of the old guard and you're exactly right, the reverence they have for the fallen there at Arlington is quite extraordinary and quite inspiring. And as you say, a good message for all of us.
Thank you, sir.
COTTON: Thanks, Chris.
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