CNN "The Lead With Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Van Hollen

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

TAPPER: Let's get your reaction to Attorney General Barr saying he's concerned about unauthorized surveillance of the Trump campaign and that he has an obligation to investigate the conduct by the intelligence community.

What did you think when he said that? And do you think he ever landed on a clear explanation of what he was exactly saying?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D- MD): No, he did not, Jake. This was really a shameful moment for the attorney general, who was up

before the committee and really not answering questions about why he was taking so long to provide the public with the report, really wouldn't talk about why he exonerated the president on the obstruction of justice charges, even when Mueller did not exonerate the president.

And while he wasn't answering those questions, he floated this whole thing, this surprise statement, about spying, but then quickly said he didn't have any evidence that he would provide to the committee.

So it looks like he's doing the political bidding of the president. This has been something the president has wanted for a long time. But the job of the attorney general is not to do the bidding of the president. The job of the attorney general is to pursue justice.

TAPPER: Take a listen to President Trump. He has praised Barr's decision to investigate the investigation, so to speak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Hopefully, the attorney general -- he mentioned it yesterday. He's doing a great job, getting started on going back to the origins of exactly where this all started, because this was an illegal witch- hunt and everybody knew it. What they did was treason. What they did was terrible.

What they did was against or Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your reaction, sir?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, clearly, Barr was, you know, essentially doing what the president's been asking him to do, even when he refused to provide any evidence to the committee.

That sounds to me like political interference, rather than, you know, an unbiased look into this. It sounds like a fishing expedition based on what the president wants.

As you know, Jake, this has been well-plowed territory. There was surveillance pursuant to the FISA warrant, and committees of Congress have looked into this issue. So, for Barr to sort of spring this at the same time that he hasn't provided the Mueller report to the public, again, just stinks of politics, rather than justice and the rule of law.

TAPPER: Here's what Barr had to say about the investigation into decisions by the FBI:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARR: To the extent there were any issues at the FBI, I do not view it as a problem that's endemic to the FBI. I think there was probably a failure among a group of leaders there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you agree that there were issues within the FBI's leadership at this time?

VAN HOLLEN: Look, Jake, I do not know all the details here.

What I know is that Barr threw out this bombshell, and at the same time refused to present any evidence of it. That is, in my view, reckless and clearly political, especially given the fact the president has been urging him to do this, and now is celebrating the fact that he did.

And it obviously took away a lot of attention from the fact that Mueller has continued to stall in making the Mueller -- excuse me -- the attorney general has stalled in making the Mueller report public and has refused to explain the basis for his -- quote -- "exonerating" the president, when Mueller expressly did not do so.

TAPPER: Here's what Barr had to say about his concerns regarding possible abuse of FBI surveillance powers. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARR: There was a lot of, you know, people upset at the FBI, you know, spying on or surveilling civil rights groups or anti-war groups.

Part of my responsibility is to protect the civil liberties of the American people. And I think -- I think something that is important is that the law enforcement and intelligence agencies respect the limits on their powers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Senator, I don't need to tell you that the FBI does have a long history of abusing their powers when it comes to surveillance.

All intelligence agencies in this country at one point or another have come under fire. Is it not possible that that happened here?

VAN HOLLEN: Look, Jake, we don't know the facts.

And that's why it was reckless of Attorney General Barr to throw this out there without providing the facts. As Senator Warner said earlier today -- he's the ranking member, the ranking Democrat on the Intelligence Committee -- we have looked at this, committees have looked at this, and they found no evidence of wrongdoing when it came to the FISA warrants that led to the surveillance.

[16:10:13]

And so for Barr to come before the committee, not provide any evidence, but make those kind of statements, in my view, is grossly irresponsible.

Obviously, obviously, we want to make sure that law enforcement abides by the law and by the rules. But before you throw out public accusations, you would think you would at least provide some basis to the committee and some evidence, which he did not.

TAPPER: Obviously, for years now, President Trump has been doing everything he could to undermine this investigation, especially in the court of public opinion, bad-mouthing Mueller, bad-mouthing Comey, bad-mouthing the people conducting the investigation.

Do you see what happened today, the comment by Attorney General Barr, as part of that? Because this Mueller report is going to be released in some way, shape, or form with redactions, but it's 300-, 400-plus pages that detail not great things, even if not criminal activities, but not flattering activities by people in the president's orbit.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I'm not sure I understood your question.

But what we do know, Jake, is this, that the Mueller -- the Mueller team in that report specifically said that there were difficult questions of fact and intent with respect to whether or not the president of the United States obstructed justice.

They didn't find beyond a reasonable doubt that the president obstructed justice in a criminal way, but, clearly, they saw a lot of evidence that could lead to that conclusion.

And instead of allowing the public to see the report and see what Mueller's team has found, Barr substituted his own judgment and his own conclusions for that of Mueller and his team, as he's continued to stonewall the report.

So, you know, the president, you know, continues to tweet out the top lines from the Barr report, as if they were conclusions from the Mueller report. But, on obstruction of justice, that was not a Mueller conclusion.

And we heard today that Barr doesn't know whether Mueller would agree in any way to that. I doubt he would, because, otherwise, he would have said so in his report.

TAPPER: It doesn't sound like you have such high regard for the attorney general.

VAN HOLLEN: I think, every day that goes by, it's become clearer and clearer that the attorney general is doing the political bidding of the president.

Many of us were concerned about this when he wrote that about 14-page memo last year that looked like a job application for the attorney general position. That memo, if you recall, essentially said that the president could not be found guilty of obstruction of justice if there was no sort of underlying crime, when, in fact, there are many possibilities of a president being involved in obstruction of justice.

And so, the reality is that that memo that raised so many concerns during his confirmation hearing, in my view, was early proof that this attorney general is just doing the political bidding of President Trump.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland, thank you so much.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source