CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mazie Hirono

Interview

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: We're back with our breaking news, sources telling me that President Trump ordered the port of El Paso, Texas, shut down late last month, although he was eventually talked out of it.

And in a private meeting with Border Patrol agents just on Friday, the president, according to witnesses, told the Border Patrol agents not to let in witnesses seeking asylum, though their leaders later told the agents they did, in fact, have to abide by U.S. law, contrary to what the president told them.

According to sources, the president also wants an expanded family separation policy, because he believes it is an effective deterrent to the illegal immigration and asylum seeker crisis.

Joining me now is Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono from Hawaii. She serves on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Senator, always good to see you.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Let me start with the president telling border agents to stop letting asylum seekers into the country. What's your reaction?

HIRONO: That happens to be illegal.

But we have a president who thinks that the law doesn't apply to him and his ideas, so he just tosses out a lot of things, and he either has to be talked off it or it leads to a lawsuit. Basically, one or the other happens.

TAPPER: What about the president ordering, by noon the next day, the shutting down of the port of entry in El Paso, and then other ports will be shut down subsequently?

HIRONO: Yet another ill-conceived idea. So he comes up with a lot of these things.

The bottom line is that he is so against immigrants, migrants, particularly from the southern border, from Central America, that he would just do anything to stop them. So, apparently, in this instance, Kirstjen Nielsen said, well, that's not very practical, we can't just do it in one day, not to mention that it's going to lead to legal challenges, I'm sure.

He didn't like that, so off she goes.

TAPPER: Well, let me ask you about that, because you have repeatedly called for Secretary Nielsen to resign.

Sources telling us that she pushed back on these requests, including his desire for an expanded family separate, pushing back on orders, ideas that the president pushed that she thought were inappropriate or against the law.

Now that she's been forced out, are you concerned about somebody who's going to take her place who you like even less?

HIRONO: Well, of course.

Let's face it, this family separation policy was implemented by Secretary Nielsen, putting families and children into cages. That's under her watch, too. So, thankfully, that she finally got some, how shall I say, some sense of appropriateness, and so there you go.

But I would expect that, as is clear with this president, whoever he picks will understand even more clearly that he better -- he or she better toe the line. Otherwise, they will not last long.

And that is the case with this president's entire administration. That's why it is so chaotic.

TAPPER: Speaking of chaos, the president has fired his Secret Service director. We just learned that James Murray is going to take his place. What do you make of this?

HIRONO: Again, he probably did something that displeased the president, didn't say, yes, sir, enough times or something.

But that is the modus operandi of this president, that you pretty much have to be a yes-person. Otherwise, you do not last long. So, I'm wondering, you know, how long any of the rest of his Cabinet people are going to last. But they either have to get out because they have got ethical issues or they're being investigated or something.

But all of his administration people have been -- just one after another, usually antithetical to the department that they're supposed to be running. They spend a lot of their time challenging the mission of the departments they're supposed to run.

[16:35:03]

So, that's yet another characteristic. But the major characteristic for the president and his people is, they better say yes to everything he wants. TAPPER: Let me ask you about the crisis at the border, because there

is a humanitarian crisis at the border, all these families coming in, declaring asylum.

There -- according to Customs and Border Patrol, there are not -- there is not the room for all of these families. Jeh Johnson, the former homeland security secretary under President Obama, also says there's a crisis at the border. The U.S. simply cannot sustain this flood of undocumented immigrants and asylum seekers coming to the country.

We're seeing four times the apprehensions from when he ran the agency. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I know that 1,000 overwhelms the system. I cannot begin to imagine what 4,000 a day looks like. So we are truly in a crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What should the United States do about this crisis? Obviously, there is one. And something needs to be done beyond the status quo.

HIRONO: Well, that something is certainly not cutting aid to the Central American countries because of the horrible environment that is inducing so many people, children and their parents coming across the border.

So, you know, we need to provide a lot more assistance to these countries. And during Jeh Johnson's time, I know that we sent a lot of this kind of support to Colombia, for example, and that really decreased the number of people leaving that country.

So there are things we can do. And, certainly, that is exactly not what the president is doing. And no walls, vanity walls or otherwise, or just telling his agents not to let people through, although that is against the law in our country, is going to stop that.

So we have to have a much more comprehensive look at what we need to be doing. And it's exactly what the president is not doing, because he's much more interested in people just kowtowing to him and just taking the kinds of actions that lead to lawsuits.

TAPPER: What about the laws that allow Central American asylum seekers access into the United States? Does that need to change, so as to dissuade these thousands of individuals from coming into the country?

HIRONO: The thing that will dissuade many more of these people from coming is to enable their countries to provide jobs and safety for their own citizens.

And that is not happening from these Central American countries. And so that's what we ought to be doing more of. And those are the kinds of programs that the president wants to slash or eliminate altogether.

So that's not going to stop the flow of people who want to come to a country that they think is going to provide them more safety, although, with this president, that's not where he wants to be. So this is not the country that so many people thought was going to be a place where they can have a better life.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

HIRONO: Thank you.

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