CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Joni Ernst

Interview

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(END VIDEOTAPE) BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash, in for Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is not sure we could handle another infrastructure week.

President Trump just kicked off his Memorial Day weekend by attending a sumo wrestling match in Japan on a diplomatic trip that was supposed to be largely ceremonial. That lasted about 15 hours, before the president undermined his national security team and his Japanese hosts by downplaying North Korea's recent short-range missile tests.

He tweeted: "North Korea fired off some small weapons, which disturbed some of my people and others, but not me. I have confidence that Chairman Kim will keep his promise to me and also smiled when he called swampman Joe Biden a low I.Q. individual and worse. Perhaps that is sending me a signal."

Now, there's a lot to unpack there. The tweet appears to contradict his own national security adviser John Bolton, as well as the Japanese government currently hosting him. Both have said North Korea's missile tests, which landed off Japan's shores, violated U.N. resolutions.

And the president's slap at Biden while on foreign soil capped a stunningly hostile week here in Washington, after he walked out of a meeting with leading Democrats and questioned Nancy Pelosi's competence.

Well, joining me to talk about all of this is a member of the Senate Republican leadership who sits on Armed Services and Judiciary committees, Iowa Senator Joni Ernst.

Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): Thanks, Dana.

BASH: Let's start with the president's tweet. He's in Japan, as I mentioned, as we speak, right across the sea, well within the striking range of any missile. And yet the president says North Korea test- firing missiles earlier this month did not disturb him.

Do you find those missiles disturbing?

ERNST: I find them very disturbing and certainly wouldn't trust Kim Jong-un.

So, I think we need to keep our eyes on North Korea. I understand the president wants to maintain a relationship with North Korea, so that we can work with them. However, those strikes are disturbing.

BASH: And the fact that the president says they're not while in the region, does it disturb you that that is the president's action or maybe reaction?

ERNST: Certainly.

I think Japan does have reason to be concerned. And I am concerned as well. We need to see North Korea back off of those activities. And we need to take a very strong stance on that.

So, understanding the president has a job to do in negotiating, but we do need to push back on North Korea and make sure that they are following U.N. guidelines. And that's very, very important. We can't -- we can't continue to let them further develop any type of weapon systems.

BASH: OK. I want to turn to Russia and the fact that the president gave really broad new powers to his attorney general, Bill Barr, this week to declassify information about the origins of the Russia investigation, saying -- quote -- "We are exposing everything."

But I'm sure you heard the director of national intelligence, Dan Coats, appeared to warn that could endanger national security.

You're a veteran. You're on the Judiciary Committee. You're on the Armed Services Committee. Why not keep control of America's most classified, important secrets in the hands of the intelligence community?

ERNST: Certainly.

If we do see this move forward, and the attorney general has the opportunity to declassify, which it sounds like he does, what we want to do is make sure that he is redacting anything that might endanger national security and the folks that we have working in those intelligence areas.

It is a very, very sensitive issue. And we do need to make sure that we are protecting ourselves, our country, and those that are working for our country.

BASH: Should the president have given his attorney general these broad, seemingly unprecedented powers?

[09:05:03]

ERNST: Well, I think that that is up to the president to make those types of decisions.

BASH: As somebody with oversight on these issues?

ERNST: But, certainly -- but, certainly, we need oversight of these issues.

And I do hope that, in future -- in the future, the president continues to reach out to Congress.

BASH: More broadly, what do you think about Barr's investigation? There are people who say that this is essentially weaponizing the Justice Department on behalf of the president.

ERNST: Well, I would say that there has been a lot of back and forth with the Department of Justice so far, whether it was, as the attorney general has termed it, spying on campaigns, whether it is the Mueller investigation, whatever it may happen to be. We do tend to be pushing and pulling our Department of Justice.

BASH: What do you think?

ERNST: Well, I do think that, if the FBI and other federal agencies were misused, whether it was looking into campaign activities or otherwise, we do need to get to the bottom of that, because we should not be using those federal agencies to go after political opponents.

So, I think we do for the American people have to find out what went on there. But, at some point, we need to move on from this issue.

BASH: OK, I want to turn to a very big issue for you and your state of Iowa.

The president announced this week $16 billion to help farmers hurt by the tariffs that he has imposed in this trade war with China. But it doesn't seem like this is going to be over any time soon, Senator.

You have been saying that you speak to your farmers. They are overwhelmed right now. But you also have said we do need a deal with China.

At what point are you willing to say, time's up, Mr. President, remove these tariffs, we're not going to get a deal, help my farmers?

ERNST: Well, this is a really difficult situation that the farmers are in.

And just to remind the viewers that one in five jobs in Iowa is tied directly to trade. Most of that is around the farming sector, our agricultural sector. So, it is very tense times.

But, as we have heard from our farmers, they do want us to find a path forward with China. The tariffs are hurtful right now. But the president will continue negotiating. We hope that we can get a deal soon.

But, to put it best, I think it came from a farmer in Iowa after one of our farmer roundtables. He stood up and he said: I get why the president is doing this. What I don't get is why we didn't have a president that would stand up for us before this.

BASH: So, that's understandable. And you are hearing that your farmers are giving -- have been giving running room, despite the fact that it's hurting them economically.

But what is that? How much time does the president have?

ERNST: Yes, and that is difficult, because every farmer will have different circumstances.

BASH: What do you think the answer is?

ERNST: I think we need to see a deal done. I would love to see it this summer. I don't see that happening this summer. BASH: So, should he say, enough, I will roll -- relieve these

tariffs?

ERNST: Well, at what do you point national security, the interests of our country, that's enough?

I think that our trade rep, the president, they understand the implications. They know better where we are with those negotiations. The president has asked those farmers to hang on just a little bit longer.

It is tenuous. It is hurting in the Midwest. It's hurting all over the country with the tariffs. But, at the same time, we do have to get China to the table. We have to stop them from stealing intellectual property. We have to stop them from forced technology transfers.

All of that is detrimental, not only to our economy, but to our national security. So the president has called our farmers patriots. It doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't pay the bills. But we will see in the upcoming months how long we can sustain.

BASH: OK, want to turn to something that you will deal with on the Armed Services Committee, potentially.

President Trump says he is considering pardons for Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher and other troops who are accused of war crimes.

And Gallagher is -- just so our viewers know -- I know you know -- he's charged with murdering a wounded teenage ISIS soldier and posing for a photo with his body, as well as shooting innocent civilians.

You're the first female combat veteran in the United States Senate. Do you support a pardon for Gallagher and anyone else who engaged in these alleged war crimes?

ERNST: And I will just be up front and say, I don't know the details of what went through the prosecution, that particular case.

But I would say that, if our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, if they are accused and found guilty of war crimes, we need to be very careful in that, because it is not OK to perpetrate war crimes. It is not OK.

BASH: What signal would the president send with a pardon, then?

ERNST: Well, and -- and, again, depending on what the circumstances were and the legalities involved there, I would hesitate, because we need our young men and women in uniform to understand that we operate under a code of ethics.

Even though they may serve in armed services, they still are human beings. And we do have a code that we have to operate under.

So, I would just advise the president to be very careful, scrutinize, of course, each case individually, and, if it's warranted, grant a pardon. If it is not, and someone has committed a war crime, then a sentence should be served.

BASH: You have been working very actively on trying to deal with the very rampant issue of sexual assault in the military.

And you have a new plan that tries to bridge the divide on finding an answer on this, keeping -- thread the needle between keeping the chain of command intact and giving enough independent oversight.

This is personal for you. You revealed in the last couple of months that you were raped in college.

ERNST: Mm-hmm.

BASH: So, how much does that go into what you're trying to do here? And how successful do you think you're going to be here?

ERNST: Well, as a combat veteran and as a survivor, this is an issue that is very, very important to me.

And now people, I think, understand even more so why these issues are important to me. So, we do have to find a path forward. And, in my circumstance, prevention is always better.

But if a crime or a sexual assault cannot be prevented, then we do have to make sure that the prosecution is going forward and that justice is found. So, this provides an additional check, an outside independent review of each case.

And so, if a commander is determining not to move forward with a particular crime, then it can be reviewed by an independent reviewer.

BASH: You already -- just real quickly, you already had credentials as a combat veteran. But the fact that you reveal that you are a victim of rape, has that gotten your colleagues to listen even more carefully to your recommendation on how to deal with this?

ERNST: Well, I think they do.

One thing that has always been very important to me, though, is allowing a survivor to come out at a time that is -- is right for them. And that wasn't necessarily my case.

But certainly allowing those checks and balances within the system is very, very important. But the emphasis does need to be on prevention. And anything that we can do to prevent a sexual assault or sexual harassment, we need to do that.

And if it can't be prevented, then we need to make sure that that survivor can find justice.

BASH: One last thing I have got to ask about, something else that you're involved in on Capitol Hill.

You met with Ivanka Trump this past week about paid parental leave. And your bill that you're working on would give parents paid leave to be with their child in exchange for delaying retirement up to six months.

So, the question is, if paid leave is so important, why would it require somebody to give up or to short -- or to lengthen their time working, to give up six months of retirement, in order to pay to have a child and work?

ERNST: Well, this is a discussion draft.

And the plan that I have put forward, it's also co-sponsored by Senator Mike Lee of Utah. And what it is, is a voluntary program. It is not a mandatory program. And that way, a parent can decide what is right for them. They can tailor the need and make sure that they are asking for the appropriate amount of time off to spend with their child.

But what we don't want to do is impose an additional tax. And I have heard from small business owners all across Iowa that say, if -- if there was an additional tax, I wouldn't be able to have as many workers or so forth.

But we do find that many moms and dads, they would take that time off. They have said simply delaying a couple of months at the tail end of retirement to allow them to spend time, those first few precious weeks of time with their child, and those children often show better development as well, better outcomes, health and educational outcomes, if they're able to spend that time with mom and dad up front.

BASH: Senator Joni Ernst, thank you so much.

And, as we observe Memorial Day weekend, you are a combat veteran, and we want to -- we always say thank you for your service, but especially so this weekend.

ERNST: Yes, and thank you.

And God bless all of our Gold Star families.

BASH: Thank you. Thank you, Senator. Appreciate it.

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