CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Thomas Suozzi

Interview

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BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Pamela. And now, Democratic Congressman Thomas Suozzi who sits on the House Ways and Means Committee, which of course is the Committee which subpoenaed the President's tax returns. So I appreciate your time, Congressman.

So here we are, defiance, they say, "Take a hike." They're not going to comply with your subpoena. Now, you're going to sue them in court. Does this go all the way to the Supreme Court, Congressman?

REP. THOMAS SUOZZI (D-NY): I think ultimately the court are going to have to decide this and I can imagine that whichever party is not successful at the lower courts will not pursue it as far as they can which could ultimately end up at the Supreme Court.

[19:05:09] BURNETT: OK. So obviously you got to get there before you know what happens next. But you've got the context here, other subpoenas being defied, plenty of them, and the Judiciary Chairman, Jerry Nadler says, "We are in a constitutional crisis." Are we there now or do you wait until the Supreme Court, whatever court tells them to do it, and they defy, is that then a constitutional crisis?

SUOZZI: When people use the expression constitutional crisis, they're talking about this breach between the executive and the legislative branch and we have that right now. There's a confrontation taking place. I don't think it's at a crisis yet, but I think that we're having this very serious question.

We have to remember that the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Richie Neal, has made it very clear from day one the reason he wants to see the President's tax returns, as he wants to determine if in fact the IRS is following its own procedures. Most people don't talk about this.

Since the 1970s, the IRS manual has said that every president and every vice president should be audited by the IRS. This is to take away discretion from IRS employee, so somebody wouldn't say, "Oh, should I audit the president?"

BURNETT: And he says he is under audit and that's why in fact he won't show us the taxes.

SUOZZI: Well, we have to see if he's under audit now that he's President of the United States of America and we have to see, in fact, if the IRS is complying with their own manual. We saw the President as part of the Mueller's report, when he doesn't like something, he'll call somebody up on the phone and say, "Hey, I don't want you to do this."

Now, Don McGahn came out and said, "I'm going to do it my way even though the President is directing me otherwise." Well, do we know if the IRS Commissioner is following his own procedures that every president and every vice president is supposed to be audited by the IRS?

BURNETT: So to this point though when Secretary Mnuchin says that you lack a legislative purpose, as you point out, your Chairman is saying the purpose is to look at how the IRS audits presidents. But why do you need Trump's returns to do that? I mean why couldn't the IRS just confirm, "Yes, he's under audit, as indeed all presidents are." Why do you need to return? How would that tell you?

SUOZZI: Because we need to see exactly what the IRS is doing. How extensive are they doing, what's the process they're following. The chairman wants to determine whether or not we need to pass legislation. This issue wouldn't even have come up were it not for the fact that this president for the first time since the 1970s is the first president that has not disclosed his income taxes to the public.

People have been scouring around looking at this for a while and then we came upon this provision in the statute that requires that the IRS to comply with any request from the Chairman of Ways and Means or other tax writing committees to give the tax returns of anybody they request. It doesn't require a legitimate legislative purpose even though there is one here. This is about policy, not about politics.

But this one wouldn't have even come up were not for the fact that the President broke with tradition since the 1970s.

BURNETT: Right. So I understand, you're giving the legislative purpose, you're saying you don't actually even need to provide, but you say you're doing so nonetheless. But let me ask you about the timing here because as you say both sides are going to fight this all the way to the top, whoever wins is going to be happy, whoever lose is going to appeal, and then you get to the Supreme Court, eventually.

This is going to take a lot longer than Trump may even be in office. Has he already run this by putting this into the judiciary branch and running out the clock?

SUOZZI: I think what you just said and what your reporter said earlier that the administration's goal is to try and run up the clock in time for the election is exactly what their strategy is. I think that there'll be arguments made. I don't know this for a fact, but I think they'll be arguments made by the Chairman's team that this should be done in an expedited basis because the statute is crystal clear.

It's unambiguous that the Treasury Secretary is required to provide these tax returns when the Chairman request them. It's unambiguous. There's no question whatsoever. There's not much room for debate here.

BURNETT: So you think this could go through the courts actually quickly? I mean could this be resolved for this year is that way too ambitious?

SUOZZI: Listen, I'm trained as a lawyer and I'm trained as a certified public accountant, but I think that there's going to be a lot more qualified people than myself to handle the law and the accounting in this matter that will be employed by the Committee to actually get this thing moving as quickly as possible and to dig through these tax returns once we get them.

BURNETT: So Congressman Suozzi, in terms of what you do now, the Treasury Secretary obviously defying the subpoena, the Attorney General Bill Barr has also defied a subpoena and Chairman Nadler is threatening to hold him in contempt, which, depending how you define it which contempt it is could mean jail, could mean fines. Do you think Secretary Mnuchin should be held in contempt?

SUOZZI: I think that it's premature for that right now. The chairman has said that that's premature. There are other people in the committee that say they'd like to see that happen right away. The challenge for the President and his administration as well as the challenge for Congress is people are sick and tired of the politics and the game playing.

People don't want that to happen anymore. They wanted to really focus on solving problems. So we have to find balance on the knife's edge. How do we do our jobs that we're required to do as oversight, as a separate branch of government to monitor what the executive branch is doing, while at the same time do our job to actually get things done? We have to do a little bit of both.

If we go too far one way investigate and it becomes partisan, then that's bad for the Congress. If the President keeps on denying, and delaying, and obfuscating and fighting, that'll make him look too political. We've all got to focus at the same time walk and chew gum at the same time to focus on getting things done, focus on the important issues that we face in the country. So it's a balance all the way along.

[19:10:37] BURNETT: All right. Well, Congressman Suozzi, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

SUOZZI: Hey, Erin, thanks for having me on and good luck with your show tonight.

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