CNN "The Situation Room" - Interview with Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi

Interview

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BLITZER: Jim Acosta at the White House, thank you.

Let's get some more on all of this.

Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois is joining us. He's a member of both the Intelligence Committee and the Oversight and Reform Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: And I know you just got off this Democratic Caucus conference call that you have been on for the past hour or so.

First of all, what can you tell us? Where does your party stand right now on this very sensitive issue of launching preliminary hearings, for example, on impeachment?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think that clearly there's differences of views on the ultimate question of impeachment right now.

But there is a consensus on one thing, which is, we have to get a full, unredacted version of the Mueller report, and then, secondly, we have to have Bob Mueller, as well as key witnesses that are featured in the report, come testify on Capitol Hill.

BLITZER: Where do you stand, Congressman? Which part of the Democratic Party are you with when it comes to impeachment?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I'm kind of in the camp where, as a former prosecutor in Illinois, I basically learned that you have to investigate before you prosecute.

And right now, I'm focused like a laser on, you know, 1,000 redactions in this report and what's behind them. I will just give you one example. You know, 80 percent of the redactions actually come in volume one of the report, which goes to the potential criminal conspiracy and interference by the Russians.

And of the 14 matters that have been transferred to other jurisdictions, 11 were completely blacked out in the appendices of the report. We have no idea what the wrongdoing is at issue in those proceedings, nor do we know who the targets are.

So we need to understand that, along with the counterintelligence findings, to help protect our democracy at this point.

BLITZER: They make the argument, though, that -- this is the attorney general, Bill Barr -- that if they were to release that information, it could undermine an ongoing criminal investigation, let's say, by the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York or the U.S. attorney here in Washington, D.C.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, two things.

One, members of Congress every day review classified information in the SCIF, the underground bunker beneath the Capitol. And we get large group classified briefings. So that's very important to know. This is no different.

And then, secondly, you know, we don't have a king. We have a president, and the president is subject to oversight by the people. And we are the representatives of the people. And we should be able to conduct oversight. And in order to do so, we need that information.

BLITZER: Just moments ago, the House Judiciary chairman, Jerry Nadler, issued a subpoena for the former White House counsel Don McGahn to come before the committee and testify.

How important will his testimony be, as Democrats weigh whether or not to formally open impeachment proceedings?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, as you know, in the report, Mr. McGahn told the prosecutors and Mr. Mueller that he was ordered by the president several times to shut down the investigation or fire Bob Mueller and so forth.

Contrary to what Kellyanne Conway said in your clip previously, the president absolutely can commit obstruction of justice if he has a corrupt motive in potentially firing Bob Mueller.

And so bringing Mr. McGahn before the committees of Congress to explain what he believes were the motives and what exactly transpired is very important in kind of establishing whether there was obstruction.

BLITZER: Do you believe, Congressman, as some of your Democratic colleagues in the House believe, that the leadership may have gotten ahead of themselves by throwing cold water on the prospect of impeachment so quickly over these past couple or three weeks?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, I think that what Speaker Pelosi said today was absolutely important, which is that we have to put two things above everything, which is duty and our democracy, over any partisan motives.

I think Chairman Schiff also made it very clear that whatever we decide going forward has to be in the best interest of our country. It can't be one party. It can't be for partisan advantage. That's something that we were elected in the majority to uphold, and also to deliver on pocketbook priorities, which I think is another important factor in what we need to do going forward.

[18:15:00] We have to address the pocketbook issues that the American people want us to address, while at the same time serving as a check and balance on the president.

BLITZER: Because some of the -- some of those wanting the impeachment process to begin right away saying, if you don't go ahead with impeachment, that's also a political decision, because you're not living up to the responsibilities of the House of Representatives.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I understand where they're coming from.

And that's obviously going to be a factor in the decision-making going forward. I think one factor that we also have to consider is that, in 18 months, the American people are going to weigh in on what they think about the Mueller report and whether they believe Mr. Trump deserves a second term.

I think right now the next step that I think everybody agrees on, Wolf, within our caucus, is, we need to continue the investigation. There are some very immediate next steps before each of the committees. You brought up the Oversight Committee, on which I also sit.

And, there, we do need to get the answers to our subpoenas with regard to the president's financial records, as well as the records we have requested from Deutsche Bank and other financial institutions with regard to Mr. Trump.

I think that, on the Intelligence Committee, we have to get at the counterintelligence findings that Mr. Mueller came across. There might have been ties between Trump officials and the Russians that might not be criminally conspiratorial in nature, but, nonetheless, might form the basis of kompromat.

That is information that the Russians can use to exploit or manipulate Trump officials or others in our government that can endanger our national security. So we have to get that information right away.

BLITZER: The president, his personal lawyers, are now suing to block a subpoena by your committee, the Oversight Committee, for his financial records from his accountants who dealt with his Trump Organization over the years.

Why do you think he's trying this tactic for the first time in response to this specific subpoena?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think that this is an area that's obviously sensitive to him, but it's so crucial for Congress to get these records, for two reasons.

One, we know that under our banking statutes and other statutes, you cannot commit fraud in connection with applications for loans and other instruments in connection with financial institutions. And so that's one reason.

The second is, we need to understand his entanglements, potentially with our foreign adversaries. And so we need to get those financial records. I know that Chairman Neal on the Ways and Means Committee is also trying to get the president's tax returns, which also get at this important question.

And then obviously from the Intelligence Committee and Judiciary Committee and others, we're trying to get the information with regard to Deutsche Bank and potential money laundering, which is also a significant issue that we need to get at.

Again, we need to protect our democracy right now. We need to understand what are the counterintelligence implications of having Mr. Trump potentially having ties with the Russians.

BLITZER: But are you concerned that this whole subpoena battle would go on and on and could drag on in the courts for a long time? You won't be able to enforce these subpoenas. It would underscore a weakness of congressional subpoenas.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think that we have to press forward. I believe that we stand on firm ground with regard to the subpoena power.

I think that the president and his team potentially risk litigating these subpoenas, because, if they were to voluntarily cooperate, they could help to potentially keep the scope more manageable, and essentially do this in a voluntary fashion and make it easier on them. But if they want to go the subpoena route and litigate it, that's up to them. We will be -- we will see them in court.

BLITZER: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, thanks, as usual, for joining us.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you.

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