CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Brendan Boyle
Interview
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[09:31:47] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so, this morning, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Judiciary Chair Jerry Nadler are still split over how to handle the president and impeachment. Next hour, Pelosi will be asked live where she stands on impeachment right now. That's when our Manu Raju sits down with her one-on-one. You'll see it here.
Meantime, my next guest is ready to get the ball rolling. Joining me now is Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He serves as assistant whip and is a member of the House Ways and Means Committee.
Congressman, thanks for joining me.
REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Thanks for having me.
HARLOW: We'll get to the Ways and Means Committee and the president's taxes in a little bit, but first let's start on the issue of impeachment. Listen to the president on that last night.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can't impeach somebody when there's never been anything done wrong. President Nixon never got there. He left. I don't leave. There's a big difference, I don't leave.
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HARLOW: All right, well, you called for impeachment proceedings to begin against the president last month. Right now, Speaker Pelosi is not there.
Why do you think she's wrong?
BOYLE: Yes, this has been a tough issue for all of my colleagues. It's something that I've been wrestling with for quite some time. And just speaking privately to a number of my colleagues, whether they come down on starting with the impeachment inquiry now or continuing to hold off, I know everyone has agreed that this is a really difficult thing, just because of the size and the weight and the magnitude of it.
My position for about two and a half years has been clear, and that was to not push for impeachment, to defer to the special counsel's investigation, to work to make sure that that investigation could proceed and come to its natural conclusion. Then, once the report was in front of us, and I did read all 400-plus pages of the report, it's shocking to me that some of my colleagues may not have. I think we have a responsibility to do so. Upon reading that, and then also watching Mueller's press conference on it, it's quite clear that if Donald Trump were not president of the United States, he would have been indicted on at least ten counts of obstruction.
HARLOW: But two --
BOYLE: So based on that, I -- I moved and shifted my position and said, we have enough here to officially launch an impeachment inquiry and hearings --
HARLOW: OK. So -- so you think she's --
BOYLE: And bring forward the witnesses ourselves.
HARLOW: You think Speaker Pelosi is wrong on this. That's clear. If you were interviewing --
BOYLE: Well, wait a minute, you know, no, that's not quite --
HARLOW: Wait, well, OK, you disagree with her. I'm going to -- I want to understand the why.
BOYLE: Yes.
HARLOW: You disagree with her. You want impeachment proceedings to be now. Potentially for -- to make a legislative purpose, to make some of these -- more arguments for these documents like -- like the taxes, et cetera. But if you were -- if you were sitting down with her next hour, one-on-one, just like our Manu Raju is, what would you ask her on this front?
BOYLE: Well, I -- we have those conversations in caucus every single day that we're in D.C. Myself and a number of others have made the position clear that we think there's enough there to launch an impeachment inquiry.
To be fair for the speaker, though, we're in different roles. I actually would not want her job. It is not an easy one because my role is as the representative of the second district of Pennsylvania to speak for my 700,000-plus constituents in Philadelphia. Speaker Pelosi's role is quite different. She's the head of 235 House Democrats in addition to her own district. That's a different calculus. So her job is to represent me and my constituents, yes --
HARLOW: So --
[09:35:07] BOYLE: But also my colleagues who are not in agreement with me on impeachment.
HARLOW: Well, that's an interesting point.
BOYLE: So -- so that's a nuance, a difference. I don't necessarily disagree with her approach because, frankly, she has a different responsibility than I do.
HARLOW: Right. So is she right in her approach as speaker because she is reflecting then the majority of Americans, 54 percent in our latest polling, who do not want impeachment proceedings against the president at this time? Is she getting it right for the American people while you, at the same time, think you're getting it right being on the other page for your constituents in your district?
BOYLE: I hope and trust and believe that I'm getting it right on this issue and, God willing, most issues. I have a hard enough time making sure that I'm getting it right for myself than to sit back and Monday morning quarterback any other one of my colleagues. So I'll defer on that.
I'll just say, let's get the focus, and this is one of the reasons actually why I would like to see the impeachment inquiry, rather than all the focus being on process of what the House of Representatives leadership should be doing right now. We really should have the focus on the criminality that was found by the special counsel's investigation. So that's actually one of the reasons why, whether you label it an impeachment hearing process or just have hearings, let's get on with it, let's get on -- kind of like the hearings that started yesterday, and actually delve into what was found in the report. Let's call forward the witnesses and let's actually make that the focus, because in the end of the day, that's the most important thing, not the sort of backroom process questions.
HARLOW: I'd like to get your take on where things stand with your committee's demand for the president's in subpoenaing the president's tax returns through the Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin.
So, several members of your committee, Rep. Lloyd Doggett told me on the show a few weeks ago that he supports fining Mnuchin and the IRS secretary $25,000 to $50,000 a day if needed or to be, quote, subject to confinement, that would mean jailing them for not turning over the tax returns.
Congressman Bill Pascrell Junior said, I would throw the book at these guys, also suggesting fining Mnuchin.
We have seen the chairman, Representative Neal, more hesitant to take those moves.
What should your committee do next to get the president's tax returns? Who's right?
BOYLE: So, first, just to be clear, the law is completely on our side. As we now know, Secretary Mnuchin's own internal lawyers found he had absolutely no discretion to refuse what is clearly stated in the law, and that is to turn over the tax returns once they've been requested by the -- the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. So in terms of what we do now, obviously this is being fought off -- fought out in court.
I personally happen to agree with Representative Doggett. We have the ability to fine, I believe, upwards of $25,000 a day, civilly. I think we should do that.
What this administration is doing, and it's not just on this matter, they are completely refusing every single subpoena and request for testimony that Congress has launched. That is completely unprecedented. And that is really dangerous. And here's why. Put aside the issues for a second, tax returns, what the special counsel's investigation found as it relates to Russia. Just for a constitutional matter, whether or not Congress is going to continue, as it has for two centuries, as a co-equal branch of government. That is really what is at stake. If we suddenly lose the ability to have oversight over the executive, that will completely change the balance of power and almost create a monarchy like system --
HARLOW: So --
BOYLE: Where we have a completely unchecked executive. Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill should both be outraged about what this administration is doing.
HARLOW: So -- all right, so you're saying fine Steven Mnuchin.
BOYLE: Yes.
HARLOW: I assume you would hold that also for the IRS secretary.
BOYLE: Correct.
HARLOW: Yes or no, would you throw Steven Mnuchin in jail? Should he be confined?
BOYLE: I think when you do that, you run into a lot more sort of practical problems.
HARLOW: OK.
BOYLE: I -- once you start fining someone $25,000 a day, I certainly -- I don't have $25,000 even for one day.
HARLOW: All right, he --
BOYLE: So I think you get someone's attention, even someone as stinking rich as Steven Mnuchin.
HARLOW: Congressman Brendan Boyle, appreciate your time. Thanks.
BOYLE: All right, thank you.
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