CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with former Gov. John Hickenlooper
Interview
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CABRERA: Now former Colorado governor John Hickenlooper is another one of the 19 candidates swinging through the Hawkeye State this weekend. And he spoke earlier today at the Democratic Hall of Fame event where each candidate got five minutes with the mic and for the second time in a little over a week, he slammed socialism.
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JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We must be progressive, but also pragmatic. We need a dreamer but also a doer. We must present a bold vision for the future. But we must also acknowledge that the most effective attack the Republicans can level against us is one of socialism. Now, that doesn't mean the Democrats should shy away from big progressive goals. Far from it.
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CABRERA: Former Colorado governor, John Hickenlooper, and 2020 candidate, joins us now.
Governor, thanks for being here.
HICKENLOOPER: Great. Thanks for having me on.
CABRERA: I want to ask you about your statement on socialism in just a moment but first, I've got to ask about these new polls. You've campaigned in Iowa quite a bit, at least 34 events, in over 13 days. But CNN's new poll there of Iowa caucus-goers shows you have less than 1 percent of the support. Why aren't you breaking through?
HICKENLOOPER: Well, I think we haven't done any advertising at all. And people really aren't making up their minds, they're not paying attention. I think most of the people we've talked to have narrowed it down to five or 10 people. So during a poll, they'll pick somebody. But that's not necessarily who they're going to support.
CABRERA: If what you're doing, though, isn't rising to that level where you're top of mind, are you planning to make any changes in your campaign?
HICKENLOOPER: Well, I think when I'm in a house party or in a small town hall and I have 20 people or 60 or 80 people and I explain that I am the one person who has actually done the big aggressive things that people said couldn't be done, I'm the one person who's done what everyone else is talking about. I yield, I mean, I get a lot of people saying, hey, Iowa, you're the one. I'll come caucus for you. So I think we got -- we're selling something people want to buy. I just have to, you know, raise the money to advertise it and figure out how to put it into soundbites. That's the challenge.
CABRERA: Now last week, and speaking of soundbites, you were at the California Democratic National Convention, and your comments on socialism saying, that wasn't the answer to beating President Trump. You also mentioned that today. You mentioned that. And that got a lot of reaction there. That was very different. I want to play this moment for our viewers.
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HICKENLOOPER: Socialism is not the answer. I --
(CROWD BOOING)
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CABRERA: You could hear the booing there. Were you surprised by that reaction?
HICKENLOOPER: Yes, I was a little surprised but not too surprised. We anticipated that in that room, I mean, that's where the most liberal parts of America, we might get some boos. But you know, the -- we know that the Republicans are already trying to label us as socialists. And I think as Democrats we've got to recognize -- we've got to draw a sharp line about who we are and who we're not. And we've got to speak loudly that we're not socialists.
CABRERA: But those are Democrats you were talking to. Those weren't Republicans trying to be critical of you. That's part of your party.
HICKENLOOPER: No, but I think they're the people that have to or I think they should be considering stepping back and say, well, you know, I want this big program. I want to make sure we get universal healthcare coverage. But maybe when I think about it I don't think we have to take health care -- you know, private insurance away from 160 million Americans. And I think that's the challenges, sometimes Medicare for All sounds great until you really think that it's going to be this massive government expansion. You're going to take away private insurance from 160 million people. When people hear that, that they're going to have to give up their private insurance, they're not so enamored.
CABRERA: Are you concerned that by continuing to label some of your fellow Democrats' agenda as a socialist that you're helping bolster Trump's argument that your party wants a socialist government?
HICKENLOOPER: No, absolutely not. And certainly I have not labeled any of my opponents socialists. And I'm just trying to point out that the Republicans already have and will continue to attack us for these massive government expansions and when you look at what happened in the midterms, one after another, you know, moderate candidate in swing states, they won because they did separate themselves from those attacks of you're a socialist.
[20:10:08] They were very clear that here's what I stand for. They're pragmatic. But being pragmatic doesn't necessarily mean you don't go after big ideals. It means you figure out how to do those big ideas.
CABRERA: You know, Bernie Sanders proudly calls himself a Democratic socialist. And he explained what he means by that on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning. Let's listen.
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What I mean by Democratic socialism is creating a government that works for everybody. Not controlled either legislatively or politically by a handful of very wealthy people. That's number one. Number two it means that in America, we have certain economic rights that are human rights. Human rights. Healthcare to my mind is not a privilege. It is a human right. That's what Democratic socialism means to me. It means that if you work 40 hours a week in this country, you should not be living in poverty.
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CABRERA: Governor, what part of Sanders' agenda do you disagree with?
HICKENLOOPER: Well, I agree that I've said my whole life that healthcare should be a right and not a privilege. I believe that. But I don't think we can, you know, take away private insurance from over 100 million people that want to keep it. And what we've offered is a public option that allows people that can't get insurance or the people and there are many that are unhappy with their private insurance.
It allows them a way to migrate into something that's Medicare or Medicare Advantage, but it's a voluntary migration that, you know, over 10 years or 15 years, you would end up quite possibly with Medicare for All. But it would be an evolution, not a revolution. It wouldn't be big government coming in and taking something away from, you know, again over 100 million people that are perfectly happy with their private insurance.
I think we've got a certain responsibility to make sure that we do -- we don't enact legislation or policies that a large number of people are going to resist and actually prevent from happening.
CABRERA: OK. Last question because of both of our connections to Colorado. And this weekend being Wear Orange for Gun Violence Awareness, the superintendent in Jefferson County schools in Colorado is proposing tearing down Columbine High School because of the history there and because he says there is a morbid fascination with it for all the wrong reasons. What is your take on that? Should it be torn down?
HICKENLOOPER: Well, you know, we -- I had that discussion briefly a few months ago. And, you know, the connections between these shootings and the places where they occur is very, very difficult. And I can certainly understand where he's coming from. And if -- he's doing the right thing because he's out talking to the entire school community, the graduates, the families, you know, the survivors of the shooting itself, and really trying to assess whether the connection is too bleak and too destructive to the school continuing to be, you know, one of the best public schools in metropolitan Denver.
My guess is that there is probably a lot of pressure on him, too, to tear it down.
CABRERA: I grew up in Littleton, Colorado, so I'm going to push you on this. What's your opinion? Should it be torn down?
HICKENLOOPER: You know, again, I wouldn't make that decision until I have assessed the sense of the community. I think again he's doing the right thing to go around talk to everyone --
CABRERA: You know that community well. You know that community well. You were the governor of Colorado for eight years.
HICKENLOOPER: I was the governor, but I don't know that community in terms of what they feel about this school. I really don't. And trust me, I wouldn't hesitate to give you my opinion if I thought I could bring together an honest assessment of people really felt and what mattered to them. I don't think what the former governor of Colorado, what my emotional opinion is, should have as much weight as the people directly affected.
CABRERA: Governor John Hickenlooper, really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you.
HICKENLOOPER: You bet. Always a pleasure.
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