CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. John Garamendi

Interview

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CHALIAN: Sure. BALDWIN: Let me bring in Democratic California Congressman John Garamendi. He is with me now.

Congressman, a pleasure. Thank you so much, sir.

[15:05:01]

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): Certainly.

BALDWIN: To just the point of the conversation we were just having, your reaction to this new escalation in this standoff between the White House and Congress?

GARAMENDI: This is only one part of that escalation.

Certainly, this issue of subpoenas and information is a very fundamental question of power between the executive and, in this case, the legislative branch. There's another one going on right now over at the Department of Defense, where the president is assuming the appropriation power of Congress.

The Constitution is quite clear. The only way to take money out of the treasury is through a congressional appropriation. Yet the president has, using various tools, an emergency declaration and others, already appropriated to himself for his border wall over $2.5 billion. And there's another $3 billion that he is targeting, all of that without any congressional approval at all.

BALDWIN: But when you hear, just to David's point, about this all sounds like a novel, to hear Chairman Nadler talking about fining these members of the administration and detaining them if they do not turn over these necessary documents?

GARAMENDI: Well...

BALDWIN: Where are we?

GARAMENDI: Well, we are in the midst of a major confrontation that will -- should the president be successful, both in the use of his power to -- well, his nonexistent power to appropriate money -- there really is no need for a Congress.

He can simply appropriate whatever money he thinks necessary for whatever that might be. That is a major confrontation on that side. The other side is indeed the oversight. That is the role of the Judiciary, the other committees, the Oversight committees.

It's interesting. Why do we have an Oversight Committee? Well, for the purposes of oversight, and, of course, the Intelligence Committee. If the president succeeds, through the courts or any other way, then the government of America is altered forever.

And we will in fact have an elected or perhaps an unelected imperial king. And I think that's what this is all about.

BALDWIN: Do you agree with the word Nadler used, king? He called the president king. Would you use...

GARAMENDI: Oh, absolutely. I have said that many times before.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GARAMENDI: If the president can use various mechanism to appropriate money for what he thinks is important, without congressional approval, then why have a Congress?

You, in fact, have what amounts to a king. He can dip into the treasury for whatever he wants to do, wherever that may be, including a war. And that is also going on right now in the Middle East.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about that.

GARAMENDI: Sure.

BALDWIN: Let me jump in, for people who don't -- so, the other bit of breaking news this hour, that President Trump is meeting right now with his secretary of state, with Mike Pompeo, as tensions are escalating with Iran.

The State Department is ordering all nonessential U.S. personnel out of Iraq and warning Americans against any travel there, saying that they fear that there is -- quote -- "a high risk for violence and kidnapping."

We are being told that Secretary Pompeo is expected to brief all House members on Iran next week. But I know, Congressman, you just had a DOD briefing this morning. What were the key takeaways for you?

GARAMENDI: Well, the key takeaways is that Iraq and Syria and the Persian Gulf remain a very dangerous area.

Frankly, I heard nothing new that wasn't going on for the previous year-and-a-half, two years. In fact, it was much worse when ISIS was active and there were actual military actions against ISIS.

We now have a different circumstance there. The remnants of ISIS are still around. Iran's surrogates, the Shia militia, are still there. Iraq will be proceeding in the days and months ahead against those militias.

Yes, it is a dangerous place, but is it necessary to have B-52? Is it necessary to have a new aircraft carrier and the Marines? I have heard nothing that would indicate that there is something new that would cause the current level of concern, current level of drumbeat of war.

I don't see it there. It's not been explained to us yet.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: To that point, this British general was on the receiving end of a rare rebuke from the Pentagon for saying essentially what you're saying, right, that there was no increased threat from Iranian-backed forces in Syria or Iraq, contradicting recent U.S. claims.

The State Department says this is general is wrong. Given what you have heard, what you know, who do you believe?

GARAMENDI: Well, I have a -- I do not trust the president. He is a pathological liar on most everything.

And what we're beginning to see is it filtering down into the other agencies. When the Department of Defense tells me one day that the Air Force is going to have to shut down operations because they do not have a billion dollars to replace the money they had to spend on the replenishment of Tyndall Air Force Base and Offutt Air Force Base, and then the very next days taking $2 billion out of the Department of Defense operations, saying that those operations are not important, but what is important is a -- is a border wall, they have totally lost my trust for the Department of Defense.

[15:10:28]

BALDWIN: So...

GARAMENDI: The secretary cannot be trusted.

BALDWIN: Are you telling me that you are trusting this British general, instead of the president of the United States?

GARAMENDI: I am trusting what I heard.

What I heard is information that indicates that there is a threat, but it's the same threat that was there six months ago, a year ago, and, in fact, is less because ISIS is defeated.

Yes, there are problems in Iraq. Yes, there are concerns in Iraq. Do we need an aircraft carrier to deal with those? Do we need B-52 bombers? Or do we have the drumbeat of war here? Are we headed for a Gulf of Tonkin situation? I believe we may very well be in that situation.

BALDWIN: Understood, sir. Congressman Garamendi, thank you very much.

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

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