CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Lloyd Doggett
Interview
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WHITFIELD: All right. Jeremy Diamond -- keep us updated. Thank you so much.
All right. Let's talk more about all of this. With me now is Democratic Congressman Lloyd Doggett of Texas. He's a member of the House Ways and Means Committee that just subpoenaed the President's tax returns. Congressman -- good to see you.
REP. LLOYD DOGGETT (D), TEXAS: Good morning.
WHITFIELD: All right. So far, the White House pretty defiant about these document requests. The Department of Treasury as well. Do you think these subpoenas will force the IRS and Treasury Secretary Mnuchin to turn over these tax returns? He'd already testified no way, it's not going to happen.
DOGGETT: Yes. And I take them at their word. I'm not staying up late to await the arrival of the truck with the tax returns.
You know, this is as you just noted, part of a broader pattern. This struggle, the conflict over access to information is really about power, whether the Congress will have the power to hold this administration accountable.
The President so defiant -- no testimony, no documents of any kind, clearly fears what the truth might show. And to the extent that Republicans remain silent and empower him to do this, and Democrats timid he will continue to grab more and more power and take us on the road to tyranny.
WHITFIELD: And so Congressman -- the President has called this harassment. But remind people why the House Ways and Means Committee is so laser-focused on getting these tax returns.
DOGGETT: Yes.
WHITFIELD: What is the bottom line that your committee is in search of?
DOGGETT: There are so many reasons. One of the questions that we've asked is, is the President under audit? Has he ever been under audit? Has the audit been completed since that was his excuse at one point for this?
WHITFIELD: But more than that, you want to discover what?
DOGGETT: We want know whether this audit function is working because we know that under President Nixon, it did not work and that while the IRS praised the President at that time, it turned out he owed hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional taxes.
But you know, I think we saw another reason this week when the "New York Times" in great investigative reporting showed that Donald Trump was not just a loser but the biggest loser of any taxpayer individually in America at one point.
His response was that dodging taxes was just sport, to use his words, not unlike his comment a couple of years ago that he was smart because he hadn't paid taxes.
Our tax system relies on our having confidence that everyone is being treated fairly. And when the most powerful person in our country encourages tax cheating and tax dodging and says it's smart, it really undermines our entire system.
WHITFIELD: But when that -- sorry, go ahead.
DOGGETT: Yes. I was just going to add that beyond that, there is a big question. After he stopped the problems he had at the times disclosed, who funded him after his father bailed him out? The Saudis? The Russians? A foreign bank gave him a loan? We need to know more about how current policies are influenced by the sources of his income, what debts he had, what interest he owed. Those kind of questions come into play as well whether these special provisions in the tax laws that he endorsed were designed mostly to enrich him and his family as appears to have been the case.
WHITFIELD: So thus far at least one deadline, you know, came and went and now there's a May 17th deadline. If the Treasury Department/IRS does not comply, what recourse does House Ways and Means have?
DOGGETT: Well, we need to hold the Treasury Secretary and the Internal Revenue Service commissioner in contempt and proceed to court to enforce that contempt. We also have something called the power of inherent contempt in which the Congress can protect its authority by assigning or perhaps restraining someone who's in contempt.
And I'm in favor of using that inherent contempt power. It's not something we've had to use in a long time but we've never had a president like Donald Trump who so abuses and shows such contempt for our constitution and our system of checks and balances that preserves our democracy.
[11:09:54] WHITFIELD: But then going through the channels of the courts, that means it could take years and, you know, running out the clock seems to be exactly what, you know, this administration might be trying to do.
And so how do you see it would be beneficial to House Ways and Means if, you know, contempt, going through the court system could take years?
DOGGETT: You are so right because their whole strategy is to run out the clock, to hide the truth from the American people for as long as they possibly can.
That's not only the tax returns, but trying to block Bob Mueller's testimony, trying to block the President's last attorney at the White House from testifying, and not giving any documents.
It is true that going to court to enforce civil contempt could take months, years. We don't have that much time. That's why I think in addition we should consider the power of inherent contempt -- an old doctrine that allows the Congress itself to issue a summons, an arrest warrant to an official and demand that they appear at a congressional hearing, be subject to fines, to jail time.
I think we ought to explore contracting with area correctional institutions, provide some additional support for our sergeant-at-arms so the White House will get the message that we're serious, that we're not going to be delayed for the rest of this term of Congress. We want action, we want the truth and the whole truth.
WHITFIELD: Yes. The likelihood of that, however?
DOGGETT: Well, I think it's still possible. It is a bold move, but if all else is not working, we need to do something that will get us to the truth. Certainly we haven't ruled out the possibility of impeachment if this stonewall is preserved but I think the contempt power needs to be used first.
WHITFIELD: All right. Congressman Lloyd Doggett --
DOGGETT: Thank you.
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