CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon

Interview

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[09:30:00] REP. MARY GAY SCANLON (D-PA): And then he gives us more. He gives us 14 other criminal prosecutions that he had to refer out because they were beyond the scope of his report.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

SCANLON: In the report, 12 of them are redacted. So we don't even know what those are.

HARLOW: Right.

SCANLON: And then, beyond that, he lays out the fact that the president did not cooperate with providing him information. He -- the president refused to answer any questions regarding obstruction of justice. And the answers he did give, the special prosecutor said were unsatisfactory.

HARLOW: So your -- the chair of you committee, the Judiciary Committee, Jerry Nadler, said yesterday, quote, if proven, some of the instances laid out by Mueller would be impeachable. Do you agree with him? And, if so, which -- which ones, if proven, would be impeachable in your mind?

SCANLON: Well, certainly if we look to the historical record, instances of making misleading statements to the American people, counseling people to give false testimony or mislead investigators or create records that were not factually true, all those things have been found to be impeachable offenses in the past.

HARLOW: Well, let me just stick on that first point you said. You said misleading the American people. I mean does that rise to high crimes and misdemeanors in your book? Why -- I mean the fact that the president lies to the public?

SCANLON: Well, it certainly was one of the articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon.

HARLOW: So that's the bar for you. OK.

So let's talk about this call --

SCANLON: Well, historically --

HARLOW: Yes, yes.

SCANLON: Historically that has been the bar.

HARLOW: I -- I hear you.

SCANLON: Impeachment is both a factual and a political calculation. So, yes.

HARLOW: And, look, and it's -- it's your committee, the House Judiciary Committee, where impeachment proceedings would begin.

This call today, you know, you know where Democratic leadership stands. They're sort of in your camp on, we need to know more before we push for impeachment. But then you have Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley or Rashida Tlaib or Senator Elizabeth Warren, 2020 contender, who are saying, impeach right now.

Are they misguided?

SCANLON: I don't know they're misguided. I think we have 435 members of Congress who are going to be making different judgments.

I do think that anyone who's questioning the need for oversight hasn't read the report because the report clearly lays out that there are serious, serious concerns about whether or not this president intended to obstruct justice and undermine the rule of law.

HARLOW: Here -- here is why I ask --

SCANLON: Sure.

HARLOW: Because you're saying, hold on, we need to do more work. We have a roadmap. Let's do that. They're saying, nope, we know enough now in Mueller and his team. Let's go now.

Do you think they're misguided in terms of how quickly they would like to see articles of impeachment brought?

SCANLON: Look, as a member of the Judiciary Committee, I know we have a job to do and we have to get this right. Impeachment is an incredibly serious constitutional activity. So we cannot rush into this. We need to make sure that we have all of the information and that we do it -- do whatever we do, do our oversight in a responsible manner.

HARLOW: Do -- so you have -- Bill Barr is coming to testify May 2nd, next week, next Thursday, before your committee. What's the most important question you're going to ask him?

SCANLON: Well, I think we need to know more about why he made the judgment that he was not going to recommend charges here. If it's the same reason as Mueller, that makes it pretty simple. If the reason he said there's nothing chargeable here is because the Department of Justice says you can't charge a sitting president, well, that's a very different issue than if he thinks there's actually some vindication here. HARLOW: Do you think the special counsel did a good job?

SCANLON: I think the special counsel did an excellent job. He was calm. He was extremely detailed. He followed the evidence where it led. When it didn't lead someplace, he told us. He parsed out very, very detailed reasons for his actions and his findings. The problem is, the special counsel's report isn't tweetable. It's a very dense, very legal document --

HARLOW: Yes.

SCANLON: And people need to read it.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCANLON: They can't rely upon someone else's summary.

HARLOW: Yes. Look, you point to an important -- a very important paragraph on page two of volume two about, you know, about Mueller outlining why he didn't make that decision on obstruction. That will be a key line of questioning for sure.

A few more thoughts from you.

You know, now we've seen how an independent counsel has operated, Ken Starr, for example, during Whitewater, and how a special counsel has operated, Robert Mueller and his team of prosecutors, which reports -- you know, it's more political reports in terms of having to report to the attorney general. It's not fully independent in terms of separate.

Which do you think is more effective for the American people?

SCANLON: That's -- that's a tough one. I mean we end up in this situation where we're always trying to address the last special counsel and what went well. I mean there was concern with the Starr report that too much was released, it became too political.

HARLOW: Right.

SCANLON: AND Now on this one we're concerned about not enough being released. So, that's sometimes where the legislation plays catchup.

[09:35:05] HARLOW: So what do -- what do you prefer? What's your call?

SCANLON: Well, I think that the attorney general now, Attorney General Barr, has not released to Congress what he's required to release. I mean there is a distinction between what gets released to the public, because of national security concerns or ongoing criminal justice proceedings, but that's a very different calculation than what gets released to Congress, which has a job to do and which needs that information in order to exercise its constitutional responsibility on oversight. So, you know, we may still be OK with the current construct, but, you know, there has to be more transparency with respect to what Congress gets to see.

HARLOW: You know I ask because it was Congress that allowed the independent, you know, counsel statute to lapse in 1999. And that's why we have special counsel now.

OK, before we go, let me get you on some breaking news.

SCANLON: Sure.

HARLOW: You may not have had a chance to read it because it just crossed just moments ago. But "The Washington Post" this morning is now reporting that the president and his businesses are suing House Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah Cummings to stop the use of a subpoena to get the president's financial records. We know that Mueller and his team did not go into the president's finances.

What's your reaction to that reporting?

SCANLON: That's a classic Trump maneuver. That's what he's done whenever he's been accused of misconduct, he's turned around and sued whosever accused him of misconduct or threatened to sue them. And we know that he does this all the time. He -- he's a lot of buster. And, in the end, did those suits go anywhere? No. He ends up withdrawing, he ends up settling because there's nothing to them.

HARLOW: Congresswoman Mary Gay Scanlon, I appreciate your time this morning. Join us again and we'll be watching, of course, Barr's testimony next week. Thanks

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