CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Brad Sherman
Interview
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BASH: Now, Sarah Sanders' comments may come as a surprise to nearly one dozen members of Congress, because they are actually accountants. They are trained in doing just that, looking and making and preparing tax returns.
Three of those, you're looking on the screen, are Democrats. The rest are Republicans.
One of the Democrats is sitting right next to me, as you see. He is Brad Sherman.
And you were not only a CPA, but you also have a law degree. And you used to audit big business and government.
So, with that setup, let me ask you, are you smart enough to see the president's tax returns?
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D-CA): I'm surprised to see Sarah Sanders talking about intelligence. If she thought that was an important characteristic, she probably would have chosen another employer.
But, obviously, all of my fellow members of the CPA and Accountants Caucus could understand whatever documents are produced. And I think to not turn them over is -- is without defense. And attacking the intelligence of members of Congress seems to be the only thing that the president's spokesperson can do.
BASH: So, as somebody who is well-versed in preparing and looking at tax returns and, as I said, even being involved in audits, what do you want to see? What specifically are you looking for?
Why do you, as a member of Congress, want to see those returns?
SHERMAN: Well, the president has billed himself as very generous. We'd like to see what charitable contributions he's made.
We'd like to see whether he's using some questionable loopholes. He should pay what is owed and not what he says is owed, making use of arguments that could fall under an audit or would likely be rejected by a tax court.
It's one thing to pay less than you would pay if the law were different. It's another thing to stretch the law and make use of loopholes. So, we would want to see that as well.
BASH: So I'm sure you have seen, the president's lawyer sent a second letter to lawyers at the Treasury Department, which is, of course, the department that oversees the IRS, saying the IRS should deny the request. And the president's lawyer writes this: "Congress has no constitutional authority to act like a junior varsity IRS, rerunning individual examinations or flyspecking the agency's calculations."
If the IRS commissioner does not hand over Trump's returns by April 23, which is what your fellow Democrats have demanded, what are you going to do?
SHERMAN: Certainly, we should get a writ of mandamus requiring the IRS to turn them over.
We should also...
BASH: Can you explain what that is in...
SHERMAN: That would be a court order telling the IRS to turn them over.
Likewise, we should get them from the accountants as well. But there are strong reasons why we should look at these. It's the only way to enforce the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution and to make sure that the president isn't getting benefits in gifts of millions of dollars from foreign governments.
It's also the only way to check that the IRS is following its policy, which is to audit every president and every vice president, and do it in a thorough way. And the only entity that can really look over the IRS and make sure they're following their own policies is the Ways and Means Committee and the Finance Committee in the Senate.
BASH: I want to turn to what's going on in your caucus. You're a member of the House in your Democratic Caucus, and, specifically, the House speaker's recent comments about the more progressive faction in your caucus, including Andrea -- Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, who have been a target of President Trump.
Let's listen to the House speaker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Two of these wings, AOC and her group on one side...
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): That's like five people.
QUESTION: No, it's the progressive group. It's more than five.
PELOSI: Oh, the progressive -- I'm a progressive yes.
However, I do reject socialism as an economic system. If people have that view, that's their view. That is not the view of the Democratic Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Is it like five people? Is that fair? Or -- you spend time, a lot of time in the caucus meetings.
SHERMAN: Well, we have a large Progressive Caucus.
There are three new members of Congress who are getting a lot of publicity. In part, that's because Donald Trump has chosen to attack them. And we can't have Trump choosing who our leaders are. Our leader is Nancy Pelosi. Our leaders are the chairs of the various committees.
And to think that somebody -- we have 62 freshman members of Congress, and they're only three that are being talked about. That's not a decision Trump should make. And the press should pay attention to all 62 of our new members and all of our members.
BASH: But they do have leading voices. They have incredible followings on social media and well beyond their particular districts. Isn't that fair?
SHERMAN: They are attacked by Donald Trump, and so they get a lot of coverage. It's chicken-and-egg situation.
[15:25:00]
Trump should not choose who speaks for the Democratic Party. The face of the Democratic...
BASH: And do they speak for the Democratic Party?
SHERMAN: They speak as much as I do. They represent their district. I represent my district.
I have been doing it for 22 years and have been entrusted with a subcommittee chairmanship by our caucus. They are relatively new members. That doesn't mean -- especially, Alexandria beating Joe Crowley shows a real capacity to win a race against a major opponent.
But many of us have done that. And many of us have beaten tough Republicans, as well as beating tough Democrats.
BASH: Congressman Brad Sherman, thank you so much for coming in.
SHERMAN: Thank you.
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