CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
COOPER: Yes, Jim Acosta, thanks very much.
With us now, Democratic Congresswoman Mary Gay Scanlon. She's vice chair of the House Judiciary Committee.
Before we get to the question of impeachment, Congresswoman, I just want to ask you about something we just mentioned, the House Judiciary Committee issued a subpoena today to former White House communications director, Hope Hicks. Don McGahn's former aide as well, Annie Donaldson.
You're the vice chair of that committee. Do you have any indication they'll actually comply with the subpoena?
REP. MARY GAY SCANLON (D-PA): Well, so far, we haven't had any of the witnesses tell us they're not willing to comply. It's only been when the president has gotten in the way and instructed people not to comply that we've had a problem.
COOPER: Where do you stand right now in terms of impeachment? Do you think President Trump should be impeached?
SCANLON: I'm not at he should be impeached. But I do think it's reached a point where we have to open an impeachment inquiry.
COOPER: Why open an impeachment inquiry if you don't want it to go all the way to impeachment?
SCANLON: Well, look, the impeachment inquiry is our opportunity to get the facts out, get the evidence out. The American people have not yet seen what's in the Mueller report. We've had the president and his henchmen stonewall and issue talking points that bear no relationship to what's in that report. The president has tried to hide the underlying evidence.
We need to be able to show the American people the witnesses that led to Mueller's on collusions that there was obstruction of justice or at least evidence of it that needed to be preserved for Congress to look at, and we need to see the underlying evidence.
COOPER: But your -- I mean, folks on Capitol Hill are trying to do that now. They're trying to have hearings, trying to have witnesses. No one is showing up.
Why would somebody show up in impeachment hearings if they wouldn't show up under a subpoena or now?
SCANLON: Well, I think we need to make it plain to the president that this is what we're talking about now. I mean, volume one of the Mueller report was about Russian interference in our election. Volume two was about the president interfering with the investigation of that Russian interference.
Volume three is the cover-up. And that's what he's doing right now. He's trying to cover up his misconduct. That warrants us having an impeachment inquiry.
COOPER: Right.
[20:00:01] But what changed -- I mean, having an impeachment inquiry, does it give you any more power to actually get witnesses to show up? Because subpoena seems to be a pretty strong thing and they're ignoring subpoenas.
SCANLON: Subpoenas are a pretty strong thing and I think the average American knows that they can't ignore a subpoena, well, neither can the president. And he can't instruct the people that work for him or don't even work for him anymore to ignore a subpoena.
When we go to court to enforce the subpoenas, as we will, the court looks at it as a balancing process. They look at the executive's rights and they look at the legislative, or the congressional oversight rights. And depending on the issue, depending on the specific testimony that's at issue, the court balances the respective rights of the branches. But there is no executive immunity to cover up misconduct and particularly not so when Congress is investigating presidential misconduct.
COOPER: So if you go to court under the umbrella of an impeachment proceeding, does that give you extra power in front of judges in any way? Or -- I mean, I basically just -- I'm not a lawyer. I don't understand why someone would be compelled to do something they're not currently compelled to do under the law which they're supposed to be doing.
SCANLON: Right. Well, they are currently compelled to do something under the law. The breadth of the assertion of privilege or immunity that the president has made here is frankly ridiculous. There's no basis in the law.
COOPER: Sure.
SCANLON: There may be specific issues, but he's gone way over his skis there. But that goes to the fact that we now have a cover-up in addition to the obstruction. So it does raise the bar.
We saw -- I think a lot of members saw a real shift in tone from their constituents over the past week, particularly the past weekend with the president instructing witnesses not to come to testify before Congress when there's a subpoena and his continued obstruction, his stonewalling of the American people.
COOPER: Speaker Pelosi says there's no division within the Democratic Caucus on impeachment. It does seem like there certainly is -- there's a difference of opinion of whether you move for impeachment now or just try to go for hearings and gather evidence and show that to the American people. Are you worried a at all about the effect moving toward impeachment or starting proceedings would have on the 2020 race on the Republicans' ability to use that to rally their base, to deflect Democrats from talking about tabletop issues which are important to voters?
SCANLON: Of course. We're all worried about that. I mean, we came here to do work for the voters. I mean, today, we passed a number of bills dealing with veterans. We've passed legislation to shore up the Affordable Care Act, as it's being attacked by this administration.
We're passing a lot of good legislation and we don't want to do this, but the president is undermining the rule of law. Yes, it would be terrible if the fact of protecting the Constitution by starting an impeachment inquiry somehow led to him being able to defy the law even more. And, of course, that's a real fear.
But you can't let political considerations get in the way of your duty and the truth, and that's the point we've reached.
COOPER: Congresswoman Mary Gay Scanlon, appreciate your time. Thank you.
SCANLON: Thank you.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source