MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Ted Lieu

Interview

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REID:  My first guest sits on the committee with oversight of the Justice Department and the power to open impeachment proceedings, Congressman Ted Lieu of California who was a member of the House Judiciary Committee.  Well, Congressman -- he joins me now.  Congressman, you`re -- the ball is now in your court as a member of Congress and as a member of the Judiciary Committee.
 
We`ve just gone through a few of the things that Attorney General William Barr said that are contradicted by what`s in the text of the Mueller report.  What is the Judiciary Committee plan to do about that?
 
REP. TED LIEU (D-CA):  Thank you, Joy, for you question.  If you look at the Mueller report, it validates what Democrats have been saying for last two years which is that Donald Trump engage in repeated acts of obstruction, of corrupt behavior, and of collusive behavior.  Some of his actions may have been felonies, some may not, but none of it was OK.
 
And on the House Judiciary Committee, we are investigating potential crimes by the president including obstruction of justice, witness tampering, abuse of power, and other potential crimes.  And in a few months we either going to clear Donald Trump or we`re not.  And if we don`t clear him, then all options will be on the table.
 
REID:  Well, I mean, would that include impeach him because impeachment is simply the inquiry by which the House Judiciary Committee and the House of Representatives could determine the answers to the questions you just asked.  In fact, let me read a little bit of the footnote here from the Mueller report about impeaching and prosecuting the president.
 
It says, a possible remedy in the Mueller report through impeachment or abuses of power would not substitute for potential criminal liability after a president leaves office.  Impeachment would remove a president for office but would not address the underlying culpability of the conduct or serve the useful purposes of the criminal law.  Impeachment is also a drastic and rarely invoked remedy and Congress is not restricted to relying on impeachment.
 
So the Mueller report essentially says look, impeachment is one way that Congress could remedy but that Donald Trump would not be free from potential prosecution later on.  Are you talking about building a case for post-presidential prosecution or for impeachment?
 
LIEU:  It would be both.  If you read the Mueller report, it`s clear that he did not leave the determination of obstruction justice up to Bill Barr.  He left it up for Congress.  But right now in the House Judiciary Committee, we don`t have a record.  We have a redacted Mueller report.  We have interesting reporting by MSNBC.  We have interesting things that people have said in the press.
 
What we need is to build a record, gather authenticated documents, interview witnesses under oath, and at the end of the day we`re either going to exonerate Donald Trump in his associates or we`re not.  And if we don`t, then yes, impeachment would be on the table.
 
REID:  But you don`t have a record?  I mean, this is a very extensive report that was issued by the special counsel.  And let me just read one of the conclusions.  In Donald Trump`s communications with Paul Manafort, his campaign chairman, "evidence concerning the President`s conduct toward Manafort indicates that the President intended to encourage Manafort not to cooperate with the government.  I mean that was enough to impeach Bill Clinton, encouraging people not to cooperate allegedly.
 
The record that`s in the Mueller report, is that not a sufficient record to at least begin an impeachment inquiry?
 
LIEU:  You`re correct.  I should not say we don`t have a record.  I should say we don`t have a complete record.  So what we are doing now is to do the hearings, interview witnesses, get documents that we have a complete record.  And if we`re going to go down the road of impeachment, then we have to be absolutely certain that we get it right.  And that`s why we issued subpoenas today to get the full Mueller report unredacted.
 
REID:  I totally understood.  Just last question before I let you go.  What about impeachment of Bill Barr?  If William Barr lied to the American people about what`s in the Mueller report, should Congress be considering impeachment against him?
 
LIEU:  So Bill Barr is going to testify on May 2nd as you noted earlier.  I`m going to give him the opportunity to explain to Congress why he misled the American people.  But let me put it this way.  Sarah Sanders lied repeatedly to the American people, resign Sarah, the hashtag is trending on Twitter.
 
So if she were to actually resign, I`m thinking maybe Bill Barr can apply for her job because he`s much better suited to spin the facts as White House Press Secretary than to be an independent people`s attorney as Attorney General.
 
REID:  All right, Congressman Ted Lieu, we`re going to leave it there. 

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