MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mazie Hirono

Interview

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HAYES:  The most forceful lines of questioning or instruction really at today`s Senate Judiciary Committee hearing with Attorney General William Barr.  It came from Senator Mazie Hirono who flat-out told Barr that he lied to Congress, and his comments prompted committee Chair Lindsey Graham to accuse her of slander.
 
"Hirono focused many of her questions not on whether what Trump did was illegal but rather whether it was acceptable behavior from the President of the United States."

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HAYES:  Joining me now is Senator Mazie Hirono, Democrat of Hawaii.  Why did you choose to focus on that line of questioning with Barr about whether it`s OK or rather whether it`s -- as opposed to whether it`s legal?
 
HIRONO:  Because he had already come to the conclusion that the president had not committed obstruction.  Although other people such as acting -- former Acting Attorney General Sally Yates had said that looking at the ten items that were obstruction items, that she would have indicted the president but for the fact that he`s president.
 
So people can differ but he had already decided that there was no obstruction of justice from a criminal standpoint, but what about the standpoint whether it`s OK to have the heads -- how the President tell the White House Counsel to a fire Mueller or to have the White House Counsel lie about it.
 
So there are whole ranges of behavior.  And when you enter the moral dead zone that is the White House, this is what you get.
 
HAYES:  There`s also something else.  It took two different bites of the apple I think to get Barr to say that it was improper to accept help or explicit offers of help from foreign intelligence services.  What do you think of that?
 
HIRONO:  Well, he hems and haws lot, and so he`ll ask things like what do you mean or I remember when Kamala Harris ask, has anyone in the White House suggested that you investigate someone.  He says, what do you mean by suggest?  Well, how about -- you know, how about I suggest you answer the question.
 
So he has -- he had a lot of those kinds of things.  It took him a while to respond in any kind of a way.  And I -- going in, I determined that we would not get straight answers from him and we did not.
 
HAYES:  Do you think he lied to you.  Do you think he has lied to you?
 
HIRONO:  He hasn`t necessarily lie to me but he`s lied to the people of America when he responded to for example Chris Van Hollen who asked him, does Mueller agree with your conclusions, and he says I don`t know.  This is after he already had the letter from Mueller questioning the four-pager that Barr had put out as not being reflective of the work that Mueller did.
 
HAYES:  What happens next to you and a lot of your colleagues who have called on him to resign?  He seems intent on waging a kind of battle with Congress and Congressional oversight and he has the backing the President of the United States.
 
HIRONO:  And therefore these are not normal times because it gives me no pleasure to call on the Attorney General to resign as I called Kirstjen Nielsen to resign.  You know, this is not normal that so many of us have to call members of the President and his cabinet, I also call him to resign -- for him to resign long time ago.
 
These are not normal times and this is why I`m looking to the House for the appropriate investigations that need to occur regarding the Trump Organization and what I would consider a lot of sketchy doings by his organization including campaign violations.
 
HAYES:  Let me play for you something that Lindsey Graham said to reporters afterwards about whether Bob Mueller would appear before your committee.  Take a listen.
 
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HAYES:  It`s over, Senator.  What do you think?
 
HIRONO:  Obviously, it`s not over.  Lindsey wants it to be over but it`s not.  For example, during his testimony, Barr kept characterizing the discussion he had with Mueller.  Well, those -- that`s called hearsay.  I`d like to hear from Mueller himself as to what kind of conversations and what kind of concerns he had about the four-pager that Barr put out.
 
And in fact, Mueller was so concerned that he asked for to put out the summaries that his team had put together, and Barr refused to do that.
 
HAYES:  All right, Senator Mazie Hirono of the Senate Judiciary Committee, thank you for being with me.
 
HIRONO:  Thank you.

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