MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Richard Blumenthal
Interview
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HAYES: Senator Richard Blumenthal who you saw their questioning joins me now. What was your takeaway from that exchange with the Attorney General?
BLUMENTHAL: My takeaway was number one, the Attorney General is indeed continuing to block and tackle for the White House. Number two, he was completely disingenuous in saying he couldn`t recall conversations with the White House. That`s exactly the kind of conversation an attorney general recalls and in fact, memorializes. I want to see the records.
And number three, I think Attorney General Barr`s credibility was shattered yesterday and he needs to resign.
HAYES: What do you -- I want to ask you this maximalism question. You`ve called for him to resign as many of your colleagues have, which I should note is the thing that you don`t do about everyone. It`s not like everyone is running around saying that you know, Alex Azar needs to resign. Do you understand yourself as locked into a constitutional death match with the president at this point?
BLUMENTHAL: There certainly right now is a constitutional confrontation. It`s a slow-moving conflagration that has to be taken to the courts. We need to present this case to the court through a contempt citation. That`s the right way to do it. We also need to present this case to the American people as Lucy McBath said.
She needs to go to the people of Georgia in her district, I need to go to the people of Connecticut, all of us across the country need to present this case the American people because ultimately they`re the ones who decide.
HAYES: But here`s -- the deeper question is are you and Democrats in both Houses, in the Senate and particularly in the House, but I don`t know how much you guys are talking to each other. Are you prepared to take this where it goes? I mean, it is very clear to me that the modus operandi of Donald Trump, the Roy Cohn modus operandi is he will sue you and he will ignore you, and he has no shame, and he`ll just do whatever he can get away with. That`s clear. We know that about him.
The question of what can he get away with ultimately is going to rest with Democrats in Congress. And are you prepared to go as far as you need to go?
BLUMENTHAL: I am prepared and I believe my Democratic colleagues are prepared. The question is --
HAYES: You guys seem scared to me. Every time -- I`m just being honest with you. And I don`t mean this is in a judgmental fashion. I`m saying just descriptively. There`s a sense of like, I don`t want to weave around the gun. I don`t want to fire -- like, we want to just reference it. We want to try to get them to comply. We want to get back to normal. This is all abnormal. But I don`t really want to go there. There`s a reluctance I feel.
BLUMENTHAL: Well, two points. Number one, we should be respectful, and deliberate, and determined. And that means thinking through all of this strategy before we simply take the action or fire the --
HAYES: Right.
BLUMENTHAL: Number two, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. My colleagues would say, we care about health care, we care about taxes, veterans, jobs, economic progress, absolutely right and we need to work on those issues and legislate on them including infrastructure where they`re seeing the glimmers of hope of bipartisan cooperation, but at the same time we have to hold Donald Trump accountable.
And that means getting the full Mueller report, getting the notes of his conversation with William Barr on the rebuke that Mueller issued, a stunning memorialized rebuke, unprecedented in our history, and it means getting all of the findings and evidence that underlie.
HAYES: I want to ask you about some adjacent issue which is a lawsuit that bears your name. It`s a lawsuit -- I believe it`s Richard Blumenthal v Donald Trump. Is that how its titled?
BLUMENTHAL: Correct.
HAYES: It`s a lawsuit under the Emoluments Clause of the United States Constitution which says that basically, the President can be getting foreign paint payments from foreign actors and foreign States. That yesterday just crossed its second hurdle, the second time they tried to knock it out of court. It was allowed to go forward. And here`s the judge affirming the premise of the plaintiff`s complaint.
Here accepting allegations the amended complaint is true which the court must at this juncture -- right because it`s preliminary injunction, I think. The president is accepting prohibited foreign emoluments without seeking congressional consent thereby defeating the purpose of the Clause to guard against even the possibility of corruption and foreign influence. How important was this ruling yesterday?
BLUMENTHAL: A tremendous victory and it`s a stunning vindication for common sense reading of the United States Constitution. The Emoluments Clause is the premier anti-corruption provision of our United States Constitution. It was put there by the Founders to guard against exactly what Donald Trump is doing, namely taking payments and benefits from a foreign government which he is doing through licensing fees and --
HAYES: Hotel bills.
BLUMENTHAL: Hotel payments by Saudi Arabia and other foreign powers to his hotels, condo rentals, and purchases, the list goes on. And I want to make this point which is very serious. We know about them because of the Free Press and because of the reporting that`s been done.
HAYES: Well, speaking of that, did you -- Reuters broke this story. The State Department allowed foreign governments to rent Trump condos. The U.S. State Departmental allowed at least seven foreign governments -- they`re just paying -- they`re paying Donald Trump with the Trump Org, but
* to rent luxury condominiums in New York Trump Tower in 2017 without approval in Congress. Did you know they were doing it?
BLUMENTHAL: No.
HAYES: So you learned about it from that?
BLUMENTHAL: I learned about it from the reporting that was done because --
HAYES: Isn`t that a facial violation of --
BLUMENTHAL: It is a facial violation of the Emoluments Clause. We have passed the first obstacle which is they try to knock us out of court on the basis of standing. Blumenthal versus Trump survived that effort. By the way, Jerry Nadler is my co-plaintiff in that effort. And we just survived a second attempt to knock us out of court.
And now we go to discovery, to documents and information, and we have the right I hope, if the court allows us, to seek all of those documents and all of the information about foreign payments and benefits.
HAYES: There`s a lot to learn there. Senator Richard Blumenthal, good to have you here in the studio. Thank you.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
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