MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders
Interview
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HAYES: While the whole world was watching William Barr face question over there Mueller report yesterday, the Trump administration`s Department of Justice under William Barr`s supervision was busy filing a formal appeal to kill the Affordable Care Act entirely, to wink it out of existence and completely destroy the American health care system as we know it.
Justice Department joined 21 Republican-led states asking the fifth U.S.
Circuit Court of Appeals to uphold a lower court`s decision to throw the entirety of ObamaCare out on a legal theory that has experts from across the ideological spectrum shaking their head at the utter craven absurdity.
But if that decision is upheld, it would just leave up to 20 million Americans uninsured, it would end Medicaid expansion, it would end all of the protections for everyone, for people pre-existing conditions, just all of it just gone. That is the official position of the Trump administration which is offering no replacement plan.
Joining me now to talk about this and a whole host of other matters is Senator Bernie Sanders who is a 2020 Democratic presidential candidate. Senator, we have talked about this before but they have doubled down now under William Barr, and they seem intent to go as far as they can with this lawsuit.
SANDERS: You know, it is really hard to understand Trump`s logic or the way he works. Why he thinks that throwing 32 million people off the health care they have, ending the protections of preexisting conditions, doing away with the ability of young people to get health care on their parents` insurance policy, why he thinks, a, that makes sense at all, or, b, why he thinks that is good politics is beyond my comprehension.
But I will tell you what we are going do, and I think we are moving aggressively and effectively, our antidote to what he is talking about is to have the United States join every other major country on earth through a Medicare for all single payer program guaranteeing health care to every man, woman, and child in the country.
If there aren`t two different approaches then what Trump is proposing and what I am proposing, that I have not seen differences of opinion.
HAYES: Well, let me -- I want to -- let me follow up on that, you know, one of the things -- one of the reasons that I`ve watched a bunch of health care fights. I watched the ACA fight, I`ve watched the repeal of the ACA fight. And if there is a common through line in them, it is status quo bias, it is people are scared of change, and with good reason, because change in health care is terrifying, because it has to do with your life.
So, I guess I`m just not quite convinced the idea that you need to meet him with some alternative when people are so in a defensive crouch about this incredibly frontal assault on what they have.
SANDERS: Well, I don`t quite agree with you, Chris. I mean, I think there is profound disgust at a health care system, which is by far the most expensive in the world, double what other countries are paying, where we have 34 million people without any health insurance, even more who are under-insured where the pharmaceutical industry is ripping us off every day, charging us by far the highest prices in the world, where you have insurance companies and drug companies making billions and billions of dollars in profit, paying their CEOs outrageous compensation packages. I think the American people want something that`s stable.
Medicare for all is the most popular health care health insurance program in the country. It is not a radical idea over a four-year period to expand it to the rest of the population.
HAYES: Something else happened they wanted to get your reaction to, which is a vote, the first ever war powers resolution rebuke of a president passed out of both houses, in the Senate and in the House, bipartisan basis, to withdraw U.S. involvement in Saudi-led the war in Yemen that`s costing tens of thousands of lives and threatening starvation of hundreds of thousands.
You failed the veto override today in the United States Senate. What happens now?
SANDERS: Well, I just want to say, Chris, so all your viewers understand it, what`s going on in Yemen now is the worst humanitarian disaster on the face of the planet. The UN estimates that if this war continues, by the end of this year, 200,000 people, mostly children, will be dead. And if it continues beyond that, there will be massive famine and millions of people will die. So, this war has got to end. The United States cannot continue to support the Saudi-led intervention, which is causing so much horror in that impoverished country.
Now, here is the good news. We lost the vote today to override Trump`s veto, but what we have done is for the first time, as you indicated, actually had resolutions pass the House and the Senate through the War Powers Act, which is 45 years old. The first time we have been successful in doing that.
And let me be very clear, this is the beginning of the process, not the end. And what you are going to see is kind of conservative members of the senate, people like Mike Lee, who actually understand that it is the constitution that tells us that it is congress that declares war, not the president, work with progressives, bring more people on board. You are going to see us expand this effort to take a look at more wars, and make sure the congress reestablishes its constitutional authority.
HAYES: I want to ask you about something you tweeted the other day about China. You said since the China trade deal I voted against, America has lost over 3 million manufacturing jobs. It`s wrong to pretend that China isn`t one of our major economic competitors. When we are in the White House, we will win that competition by fixing our trade policies.
That appeared to be a response to something Joe Biden said, and I want to play what he said, and then ask you squarely if, in fact, you are responding. Here`s what Joe Biden said.
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JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: China is going to eat our lunch. Come on, man. They can`t even figure out how to deal with the fact that they have this great division between the China Sea and the mountains in the west. They can`t figure out how to deal with the corruption in the system. I mean, they are not bad folks, folks. But guess what, they`re not competition for us.
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HAYES: So, were you responding to the former vice president with that tweet?
SANDERS: If you don`t tell anybody else, Chris.
HAYES: I mean, clearly you were, but here`s
SANDERS: But here`s the point, here`s the point.
HAYES: OK, go ahead, and then I`ll respond
SANDERS: You know, the point that we wanted to make is I happen to believe that our trade policies over the years have been a disaster for workers in this country. If you have the job loss as a
result of NAFTA, which Joe voted for. Joe is a friend of mine, and we are going to have this policy discussion in a very civil way. But Joe voted for NAFTA, he voted for PNTR with China. And those two trade policies together, you`re probably talking about the loss of more than 4 million jobs. And by the way, a race to the bottom in this country where many employers lowered wages and threatened their workers if they didn`t like that they would move to China or to Mexico.
So, I happen to think that China is obviously -- I mean, it is one of the fastest growing economies in the world over the last 20 years. And I think that we need a trade policy with China that is based on principles of fairness, not unfettered free trade.
HAYES: So, let me just -- just to give a sort of version of what the vice president seemed to be
saying, it seemed to me that part of what he is saying is that this is not a zero sum proposition in the way that Donald Trump thinks about it.
I mean, part of the thing right now is that Donald Trump says any gain by anyone else is a loss for us. A gain for China is a loss for us, a gain for Mexico. And that seems like a bad way of thinking about the way that the global economy works.
SANDERS: I agree. Absolutely.
HAYES: China and the U.S. can grow together.
SANDERS: Absolutely. And, look,e China deserves credit. If I`m not mistaken, China has
done a better job in wiping out desperate levels of poverty over a 30, 40- year period than any country in history. And they deserve credit for that. So, I am not anti-China.
But we have got to establish trade policies, which do not allow corporate America to simply shut down in this country and refuse to pay workers here a decent wage and move to countries around the world where they are paying people pennies an hour.
And one of the things that I would do is use the leverage of the federal government to say to those profitable companies that if you want to shut down here and move abroad and then you think you are going to come in and get federal contracts, you know, you might want to think again.
You want you to be a good corporate citizen and not just treat your workers in a disparaging and disdainful way.
HAYES: All right, Senator Bernie Sanders from Vermont, 2020 presidential candidate, thank you for making time tonight.
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