MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chuck Schumer

Interview

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HAYES:  And joining me now is Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York.  Great, thanks for making time tonight, Senator.  We`d love to have you on.
 
Let me first start you -- and obviously you and Nancy Pelosi are very close.  You work together extremely closely in sort of figuring out the strategy of dealing with this president.  Do you agree with her?  Do you think the president is essentially trying to sort of lure Democrats into an impeachment trap and he wants you to impeach him?
 
SCHUMER:  Well, I think every day he as a different strategy.  He`s not always consistent.  But we know one thing, both he and Leader McConnell fear the full results of the report being made clear to the public.  The fact that he so often obstructed justice, the fact that the Russians did interfere repeatedly and strenuously in our elections, all of which prove Donald Trump being wrong. 
 
And what Leader McConnell did today on the floor was nothing short of despicable, to say that`s it`s over, case closed, when we haven`t even begun to investigate the report, when Mueller hasn`t testified, and it`s Mueller who knows what the report says, not Barr`s spin on that report, to not see the underlying documentation and how deeply Russia affected things and what they might do in 2020.  For McConnell to do this, for Trump to do this, is despicable. 
 
And let me say this about leader McConnell, when a foreign country interferes in our elections, it will help President Trump, and Trump probably is pushing him to be quiet, but it`s much deeper than that, with the Russians` ultimate goal is that Americans will no longer have faith in this democracy, that gnaws at the roots of our democracy and could actually topple the mighty oak that`s been the American republic.  So for McConnell to run away from this is so -- it`s one of the most -- he has done a lot of very, very bad things, but this is one of the most despicable. 
 
We have an obligation to see what the Russians did and stop it.
 
And one more point, Chris. 
 
HAYES:  Please.
 
SCHUMER:  There is -- we have bipartisan bills ready to go forward by Amy Klobuchar, by Mark Warren (sic), by Kamala Harris that would stop the Russians from interfering in large part in our elections.  He won`t even let there be a debate on them.  That`s a disgrace.
 
HAYES:  Am I right?  I mean, it seems to me that the leader has sort of kind of slowly but surely, but totally kind of transformed the body you work in, senator.  I mean, you essentially are a judicial nominating body…
 
SCHUMER:  Exactly.
 
HAYES:  And the leader just doesn`t bring anything up.  I mean, even stuff that is not hugely
controversial.  There`s bipartisan -- what has happened to the U.S. Senate?
 
SCHUMER:  Well, he has made it into a legislative graveyard.  The House has passed so many good things, and McConnell won`t even bring them up for a debate.  Here what is supposed to be the
grandest debating institution in the world, we don`t have debates.  We rubber stamp appointments, largely right wing, largely unqualified.  And for instance, this week we will not debate a single piece of legislation. 
 
And there is so much to do.  Look what just happened in Colorado.  The House has a bill that has the support of about 90 percent of the American people: universal background checks.  Fear of the NRA, he doesn`t bring it up.
 
We have the Violence Against Women Act to protect women when they are abused.  He won`t bring that bill up.
 
We have proposals passed by the House to protect Americans from being -- when they have
preexisting conditions that their insurance companies can`t take advantage of them.  He won`t bring that up.
 
He`s going to pay a political price for this.  Americans don`t want a legislative graveyard.  But I
have never seen a leader do this.  Never.
 
HAYES:  The real question, I think there`s broad agreement along different ideological strands of the Democratic coalition broadly that the president is acting in ways that are provocative, that run afoul of the balance of power between Article One and Article Two branches.
 
There`s a question about what the remedy is.  I mean, Elizabeth Warren came out today, your colleague, obviously, who said impeachment proceedings have to begin.  We took an oath to defend the
constitution.  It is not a question of what the polls say or what`s politically  expedient.  Do you agree with her?  And if not, why not?
 
SCHUMER:  OK.  I think it`s two steps.  First we have to let all the facts come out, that means Mueller testifying.  That`s crucial for people to get the whole picture.  We have to see the underlying
documentation, not just the report that Mueller issued without we want to check, because I don`t believe Barr redacted properly and appropriately.  But we need to see the underlying documentation.
 
And then everyone will look at everything over the next several months and make a decision.  And that is the best way to go, because we need to convince the vast majority of the American people
that there is impeachment if it`s warranted by the facts.
 
And I think the path that Leader Pelosi has chosen, going really strongly and getting all the facts out no matter what Trump says, and then making a decision on impeachment is the way to go.
 
HAYES:  You have known Donald Trump a long time.  You have probably known him as long as anyone, you and Jerry Nadler, actually, which is sort of this amazing plot twist here at this point in all of your lives.  Did you ever think -- do you -- the man is fundamentally I think as The New York Times shows, he`s a fraud and a con man.  How do you understand what he understands, brings him
to heel?  Because it seems to me like he is playing a power game with congress and doesn`t care about
niceties and norms and doesn`t care about niceties of the law, frankly, and will not stop until something essentially forces him to stop.
 
SHCUMER:  One word: strength.  Donald Trump, in addition to the words you used, and I`d throw in clown, but he`s a bully, and if he senses weakness, he keeps going after you relentlessly.  He has no compassion, he has no humanity about these things.  But if we show strength…
 
HAYES:  But are you?  That`s the question, are Democrats acting sufficiently to send that signal to him so that he understand that?
 
SCHUMER:  Well, if we relentlessly pursue getting all the facts of the Mueller report, of his tax returns, of all the terrible things he has done, yes.  It`s a slow process, but it`s an inexorable process.  And he will feel more and more and more fenced in.  And that`s where you have him.
 
HAYES:  This is not a question about impeachment, it`s a narrower question, but I would love to get your answer.  Has the president violated his oath of office?
 
SCHUMER:  I believe that has so undermined the constitution and the rule of law that he has violated what any president should be, absolutely.
 
HAYES:  You -- I think last week you and Nancy Pelosi took a trip over to the White House to talk about infrastructure.
 
SCHUMER:  Yeah.
 
HAYES:  And I want to stipulate, first, I understand that politics is about compartmentalization, and through your long political career you have done deals with all kinds of crazy figures that you didn`t like, and that`s part of the territory.  I get that.
 
But do you understand why people look at that image of walking (inaudible), we had a productive meeting on infrastructure and think that you were on Mars?
 
SCHUMER:  Well, here`s the point here.  First, anything we do that might end up being constructive, it`s not going to stop us from investigating the president from looking into the president from trying to make him come clean on all the facts.
 
But second, here is my credo: stick to your values.  At the White House I told the president this can`t be a tiny little infrastructure bill, it has to be huge.  It has to be clean, clean energy.  We are not going to do the typical bills that we have had in the past.  It has to deal with wind and solar and power grids and electric vehicles and charging facilities and battery storage.
 
Third, has to protect labor.  We are not doing a bill that undermines labor, because we need middle class wages.
 
And fourth, we have to protect minorities and women so that -- and veterans
* so they get a fair share of the bill.  We said you don`t do those things, you`re not going to do a bill.
 
And so we`ll see where he comes out.  But to just say no, you don`t talk to him I don`t think that`s the right thing to do.  But to not be a cheap date, to make sure you stick to your principals and the only bill we support will be a strong, robust bill with the principals I have outlined and some others.  Nothing wrong with talking to him.
 
Will he get to that point?  Very unlikely.  And then the American people will see on infrastructure, like on so much else, he`s a fraud.
 
HAYES:  Well, but here`s sort of to me the fundamental existential crossroads we are at, which is the president just a bad president in the normal bounds of bad presidents or is he somehow abnormal in a way that is dangerous fundamentally to the basic tenets of the republic?  And if it`s the latter, the question is what do actions that take that seriously look like?  And are you doing them?
 
SCHUMER:  The best way to do that is make sure we have the report.  We helped push to get Mueller appointed and to protect him, now to get all the facts out and see where that leads.
 
You have -- you know, when you have a president who is the way he is, you have to be strong, you have to be focused, but you have to be -- you just have got to push forward step by step by step and have the walls close around him.  And I think that Leader Pelosi, particularly in the House, is doing that.  We have limited power in the Senate, hopefully we`ll be in the majority in 2021 and we can do
the same thing.
 
But I think they are handling it well.
 
HAYES:  I`m going to tee up a compliment for the president here for you and see if you agree  or disagree.  So we had the New York Times has 10 years of the president`s taxes.  This is during the period when he`s writing Art of the Deal.  He`s the toast of the town.  I`m a New Yorker, like yourself, grew up every day going to the bus stop with Donald Trump on the cover of the tabloids.
 
It was all a fraud.  We know that.  The man managed to con himself into being the president of the United States.  He has got to be the most successful con man in the history of the world, doesn`t he?
 
SCHUMER:  Well, the greatest worry I have is that this man is so despicable in how he governs, so little respect for the rule of law, so little respect for honor and decency and humanity and the norms and values that have made America great, how can so many people follow him?  That is the one issue that eats at me.
 
The others, I think if we did do our job, things will fall into line appropriately.  Trump will not win the presidency or he won`t last that long to get there if we do our job right.
 
HAYES:  All right, Senator Chuck Schumer, fellow New Yorker, fellow Brooklynite, lives pretty close to me.  You are welcome to come on the program any time for as long as you want.  Thank you for making time tonight
 
SCHUMER:  I enjoyed it.  Thank you.  Thank you very much.

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