MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders
Interview
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HAYES: Joining me now with his reaction Vermont Independent Senator and 2020 Democratic Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders. Senator, surprised at all by the move by the White House to do this and or the timing?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Nope, not surprised at all. Nothing Trump and his friends do are surprises me. The idea however that they would ask the courts to say that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional and throw up to 30 million people off their health insurance they have, do away -- do away with the protections we have for pre-existing conditions, do away with the fact that young people 26 or younger can have the insurance that their parents have, raised drug prices for seniors. No. I mean, it`s a tout outrage but we`ve seen this movie before.
HAYES: Do you think -- I mean, one of the things that`s always been bizarre here and sort of maddening about this is the President said he was for universal health care. It was going to be great health care and cheaper and everyone was going to get it. People really believed him. If you looked at the polling, you talked to people the campaign trail. He`s at it again today. Do you think that message sells or do people see through?
SANDERS: Well, I`m going to do everything that I can to tell the American people including the many people who voted for Trump that he is an absolute fraud as you`ve just indicated. He talked in his campaign about health care for everybody and then supported legislation that would throw over 30 million people off the health care that they have.
So we have got to expose him for what he is and we have got to talk about where we should be going as a country. I don`t know, Chris, how many Americans know that we`re the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care for all people, that we spend almost twice as much per capita on health care as through the people of other nations, that our health care outcomes in terms of life expectancy are not as good as many of the countries, that the cost of prescription drugs in this country is far, far higher than any other nation earth.
That`s the message we`ve got to take to the American people. The function of health care is quality care for all, not to make billions in profits with the insurance companies and the drug companies.
HAYES: OK, so you talk about where we should go. So I want to talk about that now. The Democrats introduced legislation in the House today that is focused on some reforms and modifications to ObamaCare, particularly people who are in the exchanges who have very high premiums. Do you support the legislation the House produce today?
SANDERS: No. I support the Medicare for all single-payer program. Look -
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HAYES: Wait, wait, I just want to be clear. So you don`t support that incremental reform?
SANDERS: No. The incremental that I support is phasing in Medicare for all first year, we would lower the eligibility age for Medicare from 65 to 55 and cover all of the children, and by the way expand Medicare coverage for elderly people to include dental care, eyeglasses, and hearing aids. That`s the incremental four year program that I wrote and that I support.
HAYES: Right. But I just want to be clear about this. So if that House bill were to come over to the Senate, you would vote against it right now?
SANDERS: Look, right now it`s -- right now we are working on what I have fought for my entire life. Health care is a right. It has to be publicly funded, it has to be comprehensive. The current system, Chris, is dysfunctional. It is enormously wasteful. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars every single year on administrative cost, outrageous compensation packages for the CEOs of the insurance and drug companies.
Ultimately we have got to do it every other major country does and that is guaranteed health care to all, do it through public funding, save huge amounts of money, and administrative costs. That`s Medicare for all.
HAYES: OK. So there`s lots of people running on Medicare for all but there`s been some interesting sort of debate about what it means, and there`s sort of two different ways that people are talking about it now. One is what your -- you`ve talked about a four year phase and you lower it and you get Medicare for all, the other is the idea of sort of a Medicare buy-in, right?
So you don`t say everybody is in the Medicare system, you just say everyone has the option two, you can actually buy in a Medicare rates, that`s called Medicare for America. There`s a bill with that name of the House. That is polling very well right now 51 to 30 percent whereas the sort of more traditional medical for all the you support is even. What do you what do you think about that as an alternative? Why not sort of slide towards the system in an optional way?
SANDERS: Because ultimately we have to recognize that the current system is incredibly dysfunctional and wasteful. Its goal is to make profits for the insurance companies and the drug companies. You are not going to be able in the long run to have cost-effective universal health care unless you change the system, unless you get rid of the insurance companies, unless you stand up the greed of the drug companies and lower prescription drug costs.
That`s the only way that you could provide quality here or people. I look at healthcare, Chris, the same way as I look at public education, the same way look at police protection, fire protection, all people get it regardless of their income. It is publicly funded. That is the most cost- effective way to provide care for all.
HAYES: So you -- and you`ve been very clear about that and very consistent about that through the entirety of your career. But I guess the question is about A, the path to get there and what is an incremental improvement right? So I mean, for instance, you voted for the ACA because that was an improvement upon the status quo. Would you vote for say Medicare for America if that came up in the Senate?
SANDERS: Right now -- right now, it isn`t going to come up in the Senate.
HAYES: Unless Mitch McConnel wants to troll you guys like he did to the Green New Deal, it might.
SANDERS: Yes. You know, look, you got a Republican President Trump and you got Republican leadership who want to throw 30 million people off of health insurance. They don`t want to add anybody on to health insurance. I think we`re going to stay focused on -- keep our eyes on the prize. And the prize is health care as a right regardless of income, that we need doctors to be in places where they aren`t right now, we need more nurses, we need to take on the drug companies. That`s what we have to do.
And look, let me be very clear about it. You know, I just spoke to I think 35,000 people in California over the weekend at three different rallies, and the point that I made Chris is this is not going to be an easy fight.
HAYES: Right.
SANDERS: When you have health insurance at 18 percent of our GDP, when we`re spending about $11,000 a year, when the profits for the insurance companies and the drug companies are incredible, they are going to fight us tooth and nail. They`re going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in terms of lying about what Medicare for all is in buying and selling politicians. They an enormous number of lobbyists that spend a huge amount of money on campaign contributions.
This is going to be real fight. And the only way we win it, Chris, to my mind this is not a debate over health care, this is a political fight that the American people stand up and take on these very powerful special interests or do we not.
HAYES: Although ironically I would say those drug companies and health insurance companies are not psyched about the idea so the Supreme Court striking down ObamaCare one day and everyone waking up with the system in total disruption the next. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for being with me tonight.
SANDERS: Thank you, Chris.
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