MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Jamie Raskin

Interview

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HAYES:  Carol Lam and Ian Bassin, thanks to you both.  My next guest sits on two of the House committees that are investigating the President`s abuses of power Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland, Member of the House Judiciary Committee and the House Oversight Committee.
 
Michael Cohen says that his lawyer says he sort of inquired about a pardon early on that one was dangled.  The president says he asked him specifically for one which would be in contravention of the testimony he gave you under oath on House Oversight Committee.  Who do you believe?
 
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D), MARYLAND:  Well --
 
HAYES:  I know it`s a tough one between those two.
 
RASKIN:  Cohen`s lawyers appear to be suggesting that there was the possibility of a pardon being dangled or floated by the president and that doesn`t surprise me.  I mean, all of the footage you were just showing was of you know, public tweets and statements he was making which were like little Valentine sent to Paul Manafort you know, so I don`t think anybody puts it past the President Trump to use the pardon power along with everything else in order to get leverage in the justice process.
 
I mean he`s been doing everything that he can to interfere with the Mueller investigation and to steer everybody away from investigating his ties with Russia and other countries and the oligarchs and so on.
 
HAYES:  You know, it`s always the possibility -- there`s always a possibility of President did nothing wrong at all although I think even the publicly known facts make you question his judgment but that there`s nothing further hidden and he will be cleared ultimately because he didn`t.  And there`s also the possibility that he did commit either illegal or wrongful acts that will ultimately be found out.  How likely is that scenario and do you do stay up at night worrying about that?
 
RASKIN:  Look the facts that we have now make it one thing very clear that we have a President of the United States who`s tried to turn the government of the United States and has succeeded in many ways into a money-making operation for himself, for his friends, his family, and then for other large business interests which have begun if they`ve not already succeeded in taking over the Department of Interior of Education of Labor and so on.
 
And you know that`s the big structural corruption underneath the level of personal and family corruption and business corruption for the Trump interest.  But underneath that what we`ve get is a massive taking of power by the timber interests, and the oil interests, and the for-profit colleges.  There`s a fox for every hen house in Washington and Donald Trump has made this principle of corruption the defining ethos of his administration.
 
HAYES:  But that`s distinct from getting the bottom of what he did or didn`t do with respect to Russia and with respect to other interests on the factual basis.  I mean, it doesn`t necessarily disagree with that right?  It`s also distinct from what kind of congressional or constitutional remedies there are.
 
RASKIN:  Right, and you know, this is what the hearings are about.  This is what our investigations are about.  I mean, look people have already shown up with documentary evidence when originally it was reported that the president was paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in hush money to former mistresses in order to buy their silence.
 
The right wing all claim that this was a smear and it was fake news and so on.  And then Michael Cohen shows up with the canceled checks written directly by Donald Trump and others and then they maintain a discreet and demure silence about the whole thing and then go on to deny the next scandal.
 
So look, I mean it`s hard to think that any of these allegations are just wholly concocted after all.  Nobody believes that Donald Trump is out spending his time trying to figure out how to advance the public interest or the common good.  He`s out there wheeling and dealing and bringing in all of the businesses that he think can support him for his reelection.
 
And the political deals he cuts, of course, are with the extreme right-wing religious group that Vice President Pence brings in and we know they`ll do anything they can to try to stifle women`s right to choose.  But other than that it`s hard to think of a real public agenda they have either been selling everything off to the highest private bidder.
 
HAYES:  Final question, and you know I think that people have successfully commuted certain communicated certain red lines to the president before, I think firing Mueller which he tried to do according to reporting, wasn`t unable to do because Don McGahn threatened to quit over it.  I wonder if pardoning Manafort would be such a red line and are you confident that has been communicated to him?
 
RASKIN:  Well, I hope somebody has told him that the founders of the Constitution were very clear that the pardon power is not unlimited.  It cannot be used for corrupt purposes.  It can`t be sold.  You can`t go on eBay and say I`m going to offer a pardon whoever it gives me the most money.  That would clearly be an impeachable offense.  I mean that`s in a direct violation of what the Founders talked about and what our best understanding of the Constitution is.
 
You know, I hope we`ve maintained enough common sense to understand that the president cannot put everything up for sale.
 
HAYES:  Congressman Jamie Raskin who is on the House Judiciary Committee and the House Oversight, thank you so much.
 
RASKIN:  My pleasure.
 
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