MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Ro Khanna

Interview

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O`DONNELL:  One of the members of the House Armed Services Committee, who was in that hearing today, joins us, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California.  He`s also a member of the House Budget and Oversight Committees.
 
And Congressman, I`ve seen a lot of testimony.  I`ve seen a lot of cabinet officials testify about actions taken.  Was I -- do you share my sense that what I was watching there was a reluctant member of the cabinet taking an action that he stressed was on an order from the commander in chief?  Was that the sense you got from him?
 
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE:  Lawrence, I couldn`t agree more.  You almost felt sorry for him.  I mean he understood that this was going to hurt the Department of Defense going forward, that we would take away their authority to reprogram going forward.  But he said, basically, to Adam Smith and to Republicans that he was just following the commander in chief`s order.
 
And here`s the situation for our nation.  We need talented people to serve.  They get there, they serve, they realize they can`t exercise their judgment of what they think is in the best interests of the country, and that`s why you see resignation after resignation.  There is only so long people like Secretary Shanahan can put up with it.
 
O`DONNELL:  Congressman, let`s talk about the practicalities of this.  I noticed that what the Defense Department is saying is they`re alerting the other department that Homeland Security, we have a pot over here in our budget.  It`s a billion dollars.  It`s available to you.
 
They didn`t send a billion dollars to Homeland Security.  Homeland Security didn`t take it.  They`ve just been told it`s here, it`s available.
 
There is no plan to build a wall on the southern border, there isn`t -- that billion -- what is the practicality?  Let me ask you, what`s the practicality of that billion dollars being rushed into a construction project?
 
KHANNA:  Well, it`s just optics.  I mean they want to say that the president is getting closer to his goal of building a wall.  But you`re absolutely right, it`s not like this money is there and that construction is starting.
 
It`s moving money around so that the president can go to his base and say, look, I`m making progress, I`m getting what I wanted for the wall.  But the money is just shuffling from one account to another, which by the way, no one has done before.
 
Not President Reagan.  Not President Bush.  I mean it`s really unprecedented what they`re doing without Congress` consent.
 
O`DONNELL:  Congressman, I want to extend our discussion, but would you allow me to squeeze in a commercial break to do that?  Because there are a couple more things I want to talk to you about, unrelated matters on the other side of this commercial if we can.
 
KHANNA:  Sure, Lawrence.
 
O`DONNELL:  Thank you.  We`re going to be right back with Congressman Ro Khanna.
 
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O`DONNELL:  We`re back with Congressman Ro Khanna.  And Congressman, you wrote an important op-ed piece in "The Washington Post" today pointing out the fact that the Mueller report, when it comes out, will contain all sorts of detail about how the Russians interfered with our election that would enable us to defend better against that kind of interference.
 
But your op-ed piece says we can`t wait for the Mueller report.  We have to get to work on that defense now.
 
KHANNA:  Lawrence, we do.  The most striking finding in the Mueller report is that the Russians hacked our e-mails and they manipulated social media.  And there are some very basic things we need to do to make sure the Russians never do that again and other countries don`t do that again.
 
First, we need tech companies to better coordinate to make sure that they`re removing bots and removing suspicious actors.  Second, we need law enforcement agencies to help coordinate with the tech companies to be able to do that.  And third, we need to better provide tech equipment and intelligence to campaigns so they`re not as vulnerable.
 
O`DONNELL:  And Congressman Khanna, I want to get your reaction to what we led the show with tonight, which is the administration`s switch of positions on this court case involving the Affordable Care Act.  So now, President Trump and the Trump administration through the courts are actively trying to dismantle in effect repeal the entirety, the entirety of the Affordable Care Act.
 
KHANNA:  I mean they`re hurting the very people that voted for the president.  The Affordable Care Act helps most people in many of the red states.  That`s just a fact.
 
And what they`re doing is taking away insurance from hard-working Americans, and this was very unpopular.  Every time they`ve tried it, they are stuck on doing something that no one in this country wants, not Republicans or Democrats.
 
O`DONNELL:  Bret Stephens, in the beginning of our discussion, made the point that this has always been considered very popular, the right thing to say to the so-called Trump base.  But the Trump base is a very small number now, especially on that particular issue, because it`s not 100 percent of Trump voters want the Affordable Care Act repealed.
 
KHANNA:  And there is a difference between the rhetoric and the reality.  I think the Trump base may like something going after President Obama.  But what they don`t want is their actual health care taken away.  So it`s one thing rhetorically to do something.  It`s another thing when you`re in charge and governing to actually have people`s health care threaten.
 
And I think the president has never understood that distinction between being a candidate where he can say anything and then actually governing where people see the results.
 
O`DONNELL:  Yes, I just want to make it clear.  I agree with Bret`s point that the so-called Trump base has always cheered about this.  But your point is they might cheer about it at the rally, but if you actually try to do it, that support turns a different way.
 
KHANNA:  Absolutely.  I mean the people who are hurting the most are working families, many of them blue-collar families, many of them in Ohio, Pennsylvania.  They don`t want to go back to a system where they don`t have health care or they have to pay outrageous amounts for health care.
 
What the president should be talking about is what he actually promised in the campaign.  He promised better benefits, less pay.  In 2000, he came out for a single parent system in his own book because he knows that`s what`s going to help working families, but he`s hostage to some very far-right folks.
 
And basically, he doesn`t like this because it`s called Obamacare.  And his campaign is to reject everything that President Obama did.  And there are multiplicity of reasons, I think, that that appeals.
 
One of them having to do with President Obama was the first African- American president.  And I think any time he attacks Obama, people respond.  But that doesn`t mean that people didn`t benefit from President Obama`s policies.
 
O`DONNELL:  Congressman Ro Khanna of California, thank you very much for joining us on all these important subjects tonight.  We really appreciate your input.
 
KHANNA:  Thank you, Lawrence, for having me on.

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