MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Interview

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O`DONNELL:  Earlier today, "The New York Times" reported the House Intelligence Committee has asked one of the top contractors to President Trump`s inaugural to provide it with documents about the event, a person familiar with the situation said on Wednesday, opening up a new line of inquiry into the planning and financing of the ceremonies.  The committee asked for documents from an interview with Stephanie Winston Wolkoff who had been a close friend of the first lady, Melania Trump, and who had helped plan the celebrations and parties around the inaugural, the person said. 
 
And leading off our discussion tonight is the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California. 
 
Chairman Schiff, thank you very much for joining us on this important night.  I know this is not an easy night to make time for this. 
 
Can we work backwards from what I just referred to in the "New York Times"
-- 
 
SCHIFF:  Sure.
 
O`DONNELL:  -- about your committee`s interest in the Trump inaugural committee?  What can you tell us about that? 
 
SCHIFF:  Again, our interest is really from a counter-intelligence point of view, and that is we`re foreign parties trying to use the inauguration committee as a way of exerting influence over the incoming administration.  We know already that foreign contributions which are prohibited were funneled in part to this committee through a straw man.  Sam Patton has already pled guilty to an offense related to that, a $50,000 contribution to buy tickets to the inauguration on behalf of a Russian and a Ukrainian. 
 
And so, we`re deeply interested to know whether this committee, which raised unprecedented sums, also received that money or any of that money from foreign sources, trying to exert influence. 
 
So, that`s our predominant interests.  There are other committees like the Oversight Committee, I think, that may be interested in other issues such as whether the Trump family organization used the inaugural committee to enrich itself by charging above-market rate for hotel rentals or ballroom rentals or whatnot during the inauguration, but our interest is the counterintelligence concern. 
 
O`DONNELL:  And let me take you to the breaking news report of the night in the "New York Times" which seems to be saying that there are at least some members of the Mueller team who are telling associates that they believe that Attorney General Barr and what he has written to Congress about the report has, in effect, misrepresented the weight of the report. 
 
SCHIFF:  Well, it`s been my assumption, and we won`t know until we get it and I find it remarkable here we are almost two weeks out and Barr is still keeping this report buried.  It`s been my assumption that a 400-page report has an executive summary already.  So, of course, it begged the question why did Barr feel the need to release his own summary? 
 
Now, this is obviously someone who was hired for the purpose of squelching an obstruction of justice that upset the president.  But nonetheless, why didn`t he release a summary produced by Bob Mueller himself, instead of trying to shape it in his own words? 
 
So, I don`t know what to make of "The New York Times" report.  It is concerning.  The best remedy, of course, is transparency.  Let the American people see all of it, and ultimately, that`s what`s going to happen.  We`re going to fight this in any way we can, in any way we need to, to make sure that the American people get to see the product of Bob Mueller`s work without the filter of Mr. Trump`s hand-picked attorney general. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Will your committee -- you also have an interest in seeing the full Mueller report within your committee.  Will your committee also subpoena the report, if necessary? 
 
SCHIFF:  Well, there are two investigations that were going on simultaneously, the counterintelligence investigation, which is how this all began.  That is an investigation into whether the president or people around him were witting or unwitting agents of Russian influence, and then the criminal investigation.  It looks like the Mueller report is predominantly focused on the criminal investigation.  Here is who we charged, here is who we didn`t charge and here`s why. 
 
It may not discuss the counterintelligence findings.  If it doesn`t, of course, that`s what we`re going to be pursuing in the Intelligence Committee, and we`ll use whatever means necessary.  Very analogous to Chairman Neal who is a statutory power to get the tax returns.  We have a statutory power in the Intelligence Committee to gain access to any significant counterintelligence activity and findings, and we`re going to expect the intelligence community and the FBI to live up to that statutory requirement. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Let me ask you something about Chairman Neal that Rachel asked me about, and that is why has the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee remained so publicly quiet and like yourself not doing any interviews about any of the work he`s doing in this committee, particularly this work about trying to obtain the president`s tax returns?  Have you had any conversation with Chairman Neal about why he`s avoiding interview situations about this? 
 
SCHIFF:  You know, I certainly had conversations with Chairman Neal on the subject of the tax returns, but I`m not going to go into those conversations.  I haven`t talked with him about how public facing he wants to be. 
 
But I will tell you this looking at the chairman`s letter and knowing something about the chairman.  This letter, this request, is very carefully written.  It presents the strongest possible grounds to obtain those returns, and I think he wants to rely on what that letter says, because he knows that`s on the strongest legal footing.  And he knows the president is likely to fight this tooth and nail. 
 
But this leaves no wiggle room, no discretion for the IRS.  They`re going to have to comply.  It is squarely within the chairman`s authority to ask for these returns, and I think that out of abundance of caution and mindful that the president will seek to litigate this, the chairman is probably working conservatively with the advice of the House general counsel to maximize our chances of success. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Do you want to see the president -- these same tax returns in your committee? 
 
SCHIFF:  You know, I`m deeply concerned with, you know, what the tax returns might shed light on in terms of any conflict of interest, particularly vis-a-vis foreign parties.  So if the president has investments abroad that are tilting U.S. policy toward Saudi Arabia or against other countries or towards Turkey because he`s got a Moscow Trump Tower there, or any other elicit or financial purpose, then that is a counter-intelligence concern for our committee. 
 
But that is a different issue than the one that Chairman Neal is raising, and I will defer to Chairman Neal on the basis he is seeking the returns, but, of course, that is the concern that we have in our committee. 
 
O`DONNELL:  And Chairman Neal has specified in his public statement, written statement about this that he has no intention of sharing the tax returns with any other committees.  But there is, within the law, a House process for that if the House passed a resolution authorizing your committee to obtain the tax returns, which is to say, authorizing you.  You then could see these tax returns. 
 
Is that something you would anticipate asking Speaker Pelosi to put resolutions you would be asking her to pass so you could get a look at these tax returns? 
 
SCHIFF:  You know, I`m going to defer to Chairman Neal on that question because I think he`s in the best position to be able to respond to what latitude he may have in terms of release of the tax returns beyond his committee.  I`ll defer to him on that.  I can only speak for the interests of my committee, which is to make sure that U.S. policy is not driven by some elicit foreign purpose. 
 
Now, I do want to say also that what Chairman Neal is doing is helping to reinforce what had been an enviable norm for decades, and that is that presidential candidates release their returns so the American people can understand whether there are conflicts of interest, and I think the American people have every right to know, for example, did the president push certain provisions for real estate developers in the tax cut bill because it would earn him tens of millions of dollars on his taxes?  Or any other issue that is pertinent to the American people`s interest in a transparent government and knowing that the president is working for them and not on behalf of his own narrow financial interest.
 
O`DONNELL:  And, Chairman, we now have a whistleblower telling us about the way the security clearance process was overruled within the Trump White House, and apparently now, specifically to the benefit of Jared Kushner.  What`s your reaction to those reports? 
 
SCHIFF:  Well, we are supporting the work that Chairman Cummings is doing to try to get to the bottom of this and find out why there was so many aberrations here, why there was so many overrulings of the professionals in terms of the security clearance process.  We also have our own deep interest in this.  Jared Kushner has probably the broadest possible portfolio of anyone connected to the administration.  He`s supposed to develop a Mideast peace plan.  He`s got jurisdiction over criminal justice reform and god knows what else. 
 
And he`s also entered this administration with buildings that were deeply in debt, like that 666 property.  And if he was seeking foreign financing, if foreign parties or sovereign wealth funds or other countries felt like he could be levered because of his financial indebtedness or other reasons, that`s of deep concern to us.  So, if those were the considerations that went into the denial or the attempt to deny him a security clearance, then they were overruled because of nepotistic interests of the president, then we want to know about that in the Intelligence Committee. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Chairman, we also saw this security breach of sorts, I`m not sure how you would describe it, this weekend with the arrest in Florida of someone who gets into the president`s -- basically his weekend home which he also runs as a business.  And she gets in there using two Chinese passports as her identification.  It turns out the Secret Service, on second thought, ends up arresting her because they believed she was there with malicious intent and, in fact, was in possession of malicious software and some of the computer hardware that she had with her. 
 
Your reaction to that and what we know about it so far?
 
SCHIFF:  Well, a couple reactions.  First is a concern over the security protocols that she got as far as she did.  Second is the concern over the number of cell phones over the thumb drive.  We don`t know what kind of malware this is.  Was there an intention to place the malware in a system in Mar-a-Lago?
 
But, frankly, the far brother concern because this person looks like they were an amateur for whatever reason.  The broader concern, though, is she was a guest or she was somebody attempting to pose as a guest.  People can buy a membership.  They`re eager to sell memberships at Mar-a-Lago which means that if a foreign intelligence service did want to penetrate, the far better way to do it would be to buy a membership and have a right to be there. 
 
That compound, that country club, Mar-a-Lago, what the president calls his southern White House, second only to the White House itself, is going to be an intelligence target for every foreign intelligence agency worth their salt.  So we know that those agencies are going to be deeply interested in Mar-a-Lago, and the fact that you can buy your way in and avoid what happened to this woman is of paramount concern.  But even as someone not on a guest list, able to get as far as they did, waves a lot of red flags. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Chairman Adam Schiff, thank you very much for joining us tonight with your invaluable expertise about this.  We really appreciate it. 
 
SCHIFF:  Thanks, Lawrence. 

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