MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Reps. Raja Krishnamoorthi and Tom Malinowski

Interview

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O`DONNELL:  In a moment, we`ll be joined by two members of the House of Representatives to discuss subpoenas that two House committees have been issuing to financial institutions. 
 
The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Chairman Adam Schiff, released this statement today about those subpoenas: As part of our oversight authority and authorized investigation into allegations of potential foreign influence in the U.S. political process, the House Intelligence Committee today issued subpoenas to multiple financial institutions in coordination with the House Financial Services Committee, including a friendly subpoena to Deutsche Bank, which has been cooperative with the committees.  We look forward to their continued cooperation and compliance.
 
To try to translate that, joining us now is a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Democratic Congressman Tom Malinowski from New Jersey.  We`re also joined by a member of the House Intelligence Committee and the House Oversight Committee, Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi from Illinois. 
 
Congressman Krishnamoorthi, what do you know about these subpoenas and what can we know about them that doesn`t violate your pledge of confidentiality of anything classified? 
 
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL):  Sure.  Lawrence, thanks for having me on. 
 
I can`t comment on the specifics of the subpoenas, except I can mention three facts which are publicly known.  One is that Deutsche Bank has lent Donald Trump $2 billion over the last couple of decades, despite the fact that, of course, Donald Trump has suffered numerous bankruptcies. 
 
Point number two is that Deutsche Bank is a bad actor in the money laundering space.  They were fined $500 million by both U.K. and American regulators for laundering money from Russia to other entities. 
 
And then the third and final point is that even today, the Trump Organization owes $340 million to Deutsche Bank.  So, you know, it`s a logical next step to try to figure out what is actually going on between the president and his affiliates and Russian or Eastern European entities that might be trying to launder money. 
 
O`DONNELL:  And what is the phrase "friendly subpoena" mean in this case? 
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  As Chairman Schiff pointed out, they are -- Deutsche Bank is cooperating with the committee right now, but they would not be able to produce this type of information absent a subpoena.  In other words, absent some kind of compulsory process. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Congressman Malinowski, you`re a veteran of the Obama State Department.  Here you are a freshman Democrat now, who has always had a foreign policy focus. 
 
Even before these Trump scandals, international banking, international money laundering issues were always a matter of concern for the American government.  What makes -- what do you see in it here that is unique? 
 
REP. TOM MALINOWSKI (D-NJ):  So, this is -- this is not just about Trump, it`s about the fact that for years, Russian oligarchs have been looting that country, billions and billions of dollars stolen and then laundered through Western banks like Deutsche Bank, laundered through real estate in Europe and the United States, shell companies. 
 
And this is about protecting our financial system, protecting our democracy against that money.  Fifty-two percent of all the wealth of Russia is outside of Russia.  And what we learned in 2016 is that it`s not just sitting around, they`re doing something with it.  They`re influencing our politics. 
 
Now, where the administration comes in is like this.  I think it`s really interesting that when somebody is trying to go after Russian money laundering, the president`s kids and lawyers seem to think it`s about them automatically, and that`s a little bit bizarre.  And any normal --
 
O`DONNELL:  Eric Trump came out and immediately objected to this.  And your response to that? 
 
MALINOWSKI:  Any normal administration would be working with us to protect our financial system against foreign money laundering and dirty money.  This is not a -- been a partisan issue.  Republicans and Democrats feel equally strongly about it. 
 
And so, I was kind of stunned that their first reaction was to, well, act as if it`s all about them, when actually it`s about something much bigger, protecting this country against that kind of influence. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Yes, Congressman Krishnamoorthi, to Congressman Malinowski`s point, there is nothing really in the announcement of these subpoenas that specifically says it`s going after anything Trump, and so it is odd for Eric Trump and others to immediately jump out and say they object to this. 
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  It`s odd but not surprising.  I think right now -- I think Chairman Schiff is doing the right thing and following the rubles, quite frankly.  We need to know why is it that all this money ended up going to Donald Trump from Deutsche Bank, $2 billion, and whether any of it was illicit money from Russia or Eastern Europe. 
 
Ultimately, Lawrence, this is about counterintelligence.  Regardless of whether the ties between President Trump and his affiliates and Russians or others amount to criminal conspiracy, they might still be the type of information that the Russians could use as a source of leverage or manipulation of the president or his affiliates, and that would endanger national security.  So that goes to our counterintelligence mission as a committee. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Now, this might be the first time I`ve ever read a tweet from Eric Trump, and could easily be the last.  But it is so strange that, as Congressman Krishnamoorthi mentions it --
 
MALINOWSKI:  Is it all caps? 
 
O`DONNELL:  It says: This subpoena is an unprecedented abuse of power and simply the latest attempt by House Democrats to attack the president and our family for political gain.
 
And, Congressman Malinowski, he doesn`t even know what`s in these subpoenas. 
 
MALINOWSKI:  Well, maybe he knows something that we don`t know. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Right. 
 
MALINOWSKI:  But the point is, Trump or no Trump, this is about protecting the country.  And we`re legislating on this. 
 
We`re looking at legislation to make it harder to set up these anonymous shell companies, through which anybody can open up a company, you know.  It`s easier to open up a company in Delaware than it is to get a library card in many states.  You need less identification. 
 
We need to deal with real estate.  The fact that the Patriot Act requires banks to do due diligence when suspicious cash transactions come through, but it exempted real estate, and so, dictators, criminals, drug lords move money through our system by buying real estate. 
 
O`DONNELL:  That`s a gigantic hole. 
 
MALINOWSKI:  It`s huge. 
 
O`DONNELL:  Yes.
 
MALINOWSKI:  And so we`ve got to legislate.  And to legislate, we`ve got to know the extent of the problem.  And under normal circumstances, the White House would be working with us to protect the country.  So, why is their first reaction, oh, my gosh, this is directed us?  Interesting.
 
O`DONNELL:  The subpoenas might have that answer when you get the material.
 
Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi and Congressman Tom Malinowski, thank you both for joining us. 

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