MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Murphy

Interview

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MADDOW:  Reading from this travel advisory, quote: U.S. Department of State announced the temporary suspense of operations of the U.S. embassy in Caracas and the withdrawal of diplomatic personnel from Venezuela.  The U.S. embassy in Caracas is not providing any consular services.  Quote: U.S. citizens residing or traveling in Venezuela should depart Venezuela.  Should depart. 
 
This is the newly updated travel advisory from the State Department on Venezuela, as the situation on the ground there has deteriorated into disaster. 
 
Joining us now is Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. 
 
Senator, thanks for being with us tonight.  Much appreciated. 
 
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT:  Sure. 
 
MADDOW:  So there`s -- obviously there`s a lot of news all the time now.  Lots of homegrown crises.  I mean, the president`s campaign chairman is about to find out tomorrow how long he`s going to spend in federal prison. 
 
But with everything going on, I wanted to talk to you tonight because you have been telling Americans basically to be aware of and to be smart about what`s going on in Venezuela, what are own government appears to be doing there now. 
 
What is your concern?  What do you think people should be watching for? 
 
MURPHY:  Well, there`s been plenty of reporting going back almost a year about president Trump`s inquiries about military intervention in Venezuela.  It`s curious because the president seems to get along just swimmingly with lots of other brutal dictators around the world, but for whatever reason, he has pegged Nicolas Maduro as someone he is going to have a different relationship with. 
 
Maduro is an illegitimate ruler.  He stole this election and refuses to call a new free and fair election, but there is no pathway to oust Maduro and usher in a new stable regime, democratically elected in Venezuela, that runs through U.S. military intervention. 
 
Now, the U.S. has cooled its talk of military intervention generally over the last week, but there is no doubt that president Trump has had a lot of interest in that kind of move in Venezuela, and I think it`s just important for all of us to make sure that we are not setting ourselves up for a giant mistake there.  When we pull our diplomats out today, I will note that we did say that one of the reasons was that it was constraining our options in Venezuela.  Some of them -- some people read that to mean with our diplomats there, military intervention was harder. 
 
MADDOW:  You wrote online today that the -- essential raising the prospect that the U.S. might be trying to incite a civil war in Venezuela with no real plan for how it ends.  When you talk about that sort of a scenario, is that the same thing that you`re talking about when you talk about U.S.
military intervention?  Is there some sort of third-party bank shot that the United States government may be trying to pull off here in terms of trying to achieve those sorts of ends that you`re describing there?  How do you think they`re planning on trying to do what you think they`re going to do? 
 
MURPHY:  Well, you know, we made a big call here.  We called Maduro illegitimate and we recognized Guaido as the leader of the country, and we did that without a really well thought out plan for how we were going to execute that.  One of my worries has been that we have used humanitarian aid as a political tool, trying to use it as a means to try to promote regime change instead of really staying single-mindedly focused on getting the humanitarian relief on the ground. 
 
There is a pathway, a diplomatic pathway, but it runs through countries like China and Cuba and Russia, countries who the Trump administration really cannot deal with today.  We`re in the middle of a trade war with China that basically eliminates our ability to try to get them to the table on Venezuela.  The Trump administration has reversed the cooling off with Cuba that would have if not reversed allowed us to talk to the Cubans about a pathway forward. 
 
So, there aren`t a lot of people we can work with to try to land this plane in Venezuela, and we don`t seem to have any other solid means by which to make good on this promise we made that Guaido would eventually be elected, would be made president, and then my worry becomes if all those other options are off the table, does somebody make a mistake here and move forward with some kind of military option? 
 
MADDOW:  Right.  And this latest surprise move with all U.S. personnel being pulled from Venezuela after the U.S. was initially resisting that, that at least is being taken as a sign to worry about that prospect. 
 
Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, thank you very much for your time tonight.  Come back to talk to us about this any time.  I`d love to stay in conversation with you on this. 
 
MURPHY:  Thanks, Rachel. 
 
MADDOW:  All right.  Thanks, sir. 

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