MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Mark Pocan

Interview

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MADDOW:  How did she describe the Special Olympics there?  She said it`s an awesome organization.  An awesome organization that is no longer going to be supported by the United States government because Betsy DeVos has just asked that the agency she supports entirely kill off funding for the Special Olympics, because the Special Olympics are awesome. 
 
Joining us now is Congressman Mark Pocan.  He`s a Democrat from Wisconsin.  He`s on the House Appropriations Committee, including importantly, the part of that committee that oversees Betsy DeVos` budget at the Department of Education. 
 
Congressman, thank you so much for making time for us tonight. 
 
POCAN:  Thank you, Rachel.  Glad to be here. 
 
MADDOW:  After that exchange that I saw between you and Secretary DeVos, I was interested to see her put out a statement saying she`s very upset about the shameful falsehoods that are being reported about her cutting all funding to the Special Olympics and she`s very upset about all the terrible media coverage and criticism she`s getting on that.  She actually is proposing cutting all funding to the Special Olympics, isn`t she? 
 
POCAN:  Yes, she is proposing about an $18 million cut.  And important, Rachel, she`s also while she`s cutting the department 12 percent across the board, she`s increased the executive pay line in her department by over 15 percent.  So I was just trying to figure out why it`s okay for her and her political pals to make more money when kids with real special needs are being cut -- not just in Special Olympics but also in state grants, in programs for visually and hearing impaired students and on and on.  She has an abysmal record in this area. 
 
MADDOW:  You know, I was struck by her inability or her unwillingness to answer direct questions about this.  I feel like if you are going to single out the Special Olympics and not just give them the same 12 percent cut that everything else in the department is getting, but to single them out for zero funding, you can`t -- you don`t do that by accident.  Obviously you`re going to expect blowback.  Special Olympics are such a beloved and treasured and important American institution. 
 
I have to expect that the Trump administration is doing this for a reason, for effect.  They couldn`t think this would go quietly. 
 
What do you make of the way they`ve rolled this out and dealt with criticism, including from you? 
 
POCAN:  Well, you know, even taking it back just a little bit, they`re cutting Social Security, they`re cutting Medicaid, they`re cutting by about $5 billion funding to the National Institutes of Health, which help us find cures for diseases.  This is just the Trump budget.  So when it comes to education, they don`t care that much about education so they do these cuts. 
 
Something like Special Olympics, I have two autistic nephews.  I hear from many parents, millions of people in this country rely on quality special education for their children and to cut program after program after program and then even something like Special Olympics after she`s praised it shows a complete lack of understanding of what her job is as the secretary of the Department of Education.  She just doesn`t understand her job and Donald Trump doesn`t understand his job either. 
 
MADDOW:  Well, let me press you on that a little bit because it may be that Betsy DeVos doesn`t understand the priorities of the nation as the way that you might understand them, or it may not be that she thinks that American policy should continue to support things that she thinks are awesome.  I honestly don`t understand whether or not she gets that she is cutting the Special Olympics, whether or not she actually knows that she has proposed as the agency head zeroing this out. 
 
I mean, I couldn`t read in that interaction with you and with other Democrats on the committee whether she actually got this is what she was doing or whether this might have been sort of, you know, handed to her by the Office of Management and Budget, by the Trump administration, by the White House more broadly, because she didn`t have any plan to defend it. 
 
You`d have to know you were going to have to defend something like this when you sat down before this committee having just proposed zeroing out funding for an American institution that is so treasured. 
 
POCAN:  Either she`s the world`s worst, most evasive answering person when it comes to questions or, you know, I saw a lot of light in the deer eyes as she answered things that she clearly wasn`t getting what I was asking.  Because I thought I asked very clear and simple questions.  At one point, I had to ask her if I was speaking a different language because the answers I was getting weren`t related to anything I asked.
 
But when it came to special education, she just refused to answer any questions whatsoever in addition to a number of things we talked about during the hearing. 
 
MADDOW:  Well, Congressman, thank you for pushing so hard to try to get the answers you did try to get.  I will back you up on the deer in the headlights thing. 
 
POCAN:  Only are we going to get that funding fixed.  But I talked to the subcommittee chair tonight and I think we`re going to propose increased funding for special education as well. 
 
MADDOW:  Thanks for helping us make that news tonight, sir.  Thank you.  Congressman Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, much appreciated, my friend.  Thank you. 

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