MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi

Interview

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MADDOW:  Tomorrow, the Oversight Committee is expected to issue a subpoena to the former security director at the White House personnel office.  A man named Carl Kline.  Mr. Kline was the person in charge with approving security clearances for White House staff during the time when a whistleblower now says as many as 25 officials who were turned down for clearance by career security staff nevertheless got their clearances anyway because of intervention from on high. 
 
As of tonight, neither Mr. Kline nor the White House has given any indication of whether they are going to comply with this subpoena that again is expected to be issued tomorrow. 
 
Joining us now is Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, a Democrat from Illinois.  He is a member of the House Oversight Committee. 
 
Congressman Krishnamoorthi, I really thank you for being here tonight.  Thanks for your time.
 
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL), HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE:  Thank you, Rachel. 
 
MADDOW:  So, today, we saw this memo from your committee summarizing testimony from this whistleblower about the Trump administration ignoring red flags in the security clearance process, and the list was striking to me -- foreign influence, conflicts of interest, concerning personal conduct, financial problems, drug use and criminal conduct. 
 
Despite all those red flags, she is saying that the White House intervened in the process to make sure people with those kinds of problems got clearances anyway. 
 
Is that the basic gist of what she`s conveying?  Have I got the nut of that here? 
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  You do.  You know, basically, since it`s baseball season, she is alleging a baseball roster full of individuals, 25 individuals had their cases adjudicated by her and her staff.  This is Tricia Newbold, and basically, the White House then overruled the judgment of the staff with regard to whether they should have access to top secret materials.  And there is all kinds of irregularities in the process as well. 
 
MADDOW:  In terms of the irregularities in the process, that appears to be a key part of what Newbold is alleging, because obviously if the president wants to walk down Fifth Avenue handing out security clearances willy- nilly, basically, it`s his right to do as the chief executive.  He can be as irresponsible with security clearances as he wants to be within his rights.  But she`s alleging that when these decisions were made to overrule the recommendations from career staff, there was basically no process.  It was sort of done capriciously. 
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  Correct. 
 
MADDOW:  Why is that so much more of a concern to her than just the clearances being awarded themselves? 
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  So, it`s true that the president has the prerogative to award these security clearances, but there is a process by which the staff vets people.  So, just as an example, one of the things that they do for everybody is they basically require a credit check of all applicants which makes total sense.  Well, believe it or not, they stopped doing credit checks as part of this process. 
 
MADDOW:  Wow. 
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  And why should anybody who fails a credit check have access to top secret materials?  So, these are the types of questions that are being raised because of the irregularities in the process. 
 
MADDOW:  And when the process works properly, it`s my understanding and again, I only know this from reading the news and from reading information that Congress released about this process.  This is usually a pretty secretive thing. 
 
But as far as I can tell from how it looks when the process works properly is that if you do get somebody who`s going through the security clearance application process who would be a valued member of the presidential or White House staff or the administration otherwise, the administration has a strong interest in them getting clearance despite the fact that some red flag has appeared, usually when the process works properly, there`s some effort made to mitigate any risk that may have arisen from that person`s red flag.
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  Yes, that`s correct.
 
MADDOW:  From this list -- if it`s concerning personal conduct of a specific kind or financial problems or the kind you described, some mitigation plan would be arrived at in order to make sure the clearance could still safely be given, right?
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  That`s exactly right.  They have a process whereby they basically list the factors that are concerning.  And then the supervisors basically say, OK, well, this is how we`re going to address each of these factories.  There might be a mitigation plan with regard to each of those factors or maybe some of those factors or maybe some of those factors, they decide they`re going to weigh less heavily than some other considerations. 
 
But in a lot of these cases, they were just completely ignored.  And this gentleman named Carl Kline basically overruled the judgment without addressing any of those factors or presenting a mitigation plan and just basically handing the top secret clearance or the higher clearance to that individual. 
 
MADDOW:  Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, a member of the Oversight Committee, we do expect that a subpoena will be issued to the gentleman you just described that Trump appointee, Carl Kline, we`ll see how he responds when he gets it.  Sir, thanks for helping us understand tonight. 
 
KRISHNAMOORTHI:  Yes, Rachel, thank you. 
 
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