MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Interview

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MADDOW:  Ever since Robert Mueller submitted the report that we got the redacted version of today, submitted it four weeks ago, we have seen Democrats in Congress going full bore trying to get various financial information about the president and about the president`s business history.  That`s been happening in Congress since Mueller submitted this report in the first place.
 
Now, we have a good angle on why, because for everything that is in the Mueller report today -- my copy of it is already a total mess.  For everything that`s in this today, you want to know what`s not in here at all?  Anything having to do with Donald Trump`s finances, anything about following the money trail, anything about whether or not any potential compromise on the part of him or somebody else in his orbit or in his campaign, might be traceable to finances or business interests -- potential, you know, tax shelters, money laundering, any of that, they don`t appear to have pursued any of that in the special counsel`s office.
 
House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff has been saying all along for months, that he believed that Mueller and Mueller`s team were not following the money, that they were not looking into finances, potential money laundering or potential financial motives.  Now we know that Adam Schiff was right all along about that. 
 
Joining us now is Congressman Adam Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.
 
Sir, I really appreciate you being here.  I know this is a really big night. 
 
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA):  You bet. 
 
MADDOW:  Let me ask about that point I was just making.  You have been saying for months now, that you didn`t believe that Mueller and his team were looking at potential financial motivations, potential financial ties that might explain either compromise or any other element of the Russia scandal that would have ongoing implications for the country. 
 
My reading of this report tonight suggests you`re right.  Do you think that that`s the case? 
 
SCHIFF:  I think that is the case.  There`s certainly no discussion in the report of whether he looked into those allegations.  He did look at the effort to build a Moscow Trump Tower.  That certainly was a form of financial entanglement and a deep conflict of interest by the president.
 
But in terms of the issue of money laundering, there`s no indication he looked at that, unless that`s part of the counterintelligence findings that he alluded to.  And you mentioned that earlier, he said was not going to be a part of this report. 
 
But I have to imagine, frankly, that Mueller did not follow the money in that respect.  And that`s very important for our committee as well as the Financial Services Committee to make sure there`s no financial leverage or other leverage that the Russians or the Gulf or anyone else have over the president of the United States. 
 
MADDOW:  In terms of those counterintelligence findings, that was another thing we didn`t know heading into this, in terms of how it would be structured, and indeed, what the Justice Department would allow to be released.  It seems to me what we`re allowed to see in Mueller`s findings today that there is a whole separate set of documentation related to things that were turned up in the investigation that inside the Justice Department, inside the special counsel`s office, they decided to handle separately from everything they reported today.  It`s foreign intelligence information, and it`s counterintelligence information. 
 
Did you know that before seeing those references in the report today?  And do you expect that you`ve already been briefed on some of that stuff?  Or will that be stuff you`re pursuing? 
 
SCHIFF:  It will be stuff that we are pursuing.  It really was my expectation that because this report was largely about a criminal investigation, and the prosecutorial decisions we decided to prosecute here, we did not decide to prosecute there, it would be unlikely to go into all the counterintelligence findings, and Mueller as you say, I think was pointing this out quite explicitly for Congress, that, hey, if you want this foreign intelligence, counter intelligence information, it is there for the asking. 
 
And we made that request.  And I`ll tell you, Rachel, as you know from the last two years, there is not much that my ranking member Mr. Nunes and I agree upon.  But we do agree upon this, the law requires the Department of Justice to provide that foreign intelligence and counterintelligence information to our committee.  In fact, we did a bipartisan letter two weeks ago, demanding all that information. 
 
And we`re going to get it.  There`s I think no way for the department to avoid it, and I think that was a tip-off by the special counsel that we needed to pursue that lead. 
 
MADDOW:  You were one of six committee chairman who have responded to the report, the publication of this report tonight, expressing real concern about what was described here as the president`s behavior.  And obviously the special counsel goes into great detail into the report as to how he approached the issue of whether specific allegations of criminal activity by the president could fairly be included in this type of report, given Justice Department policy that says a president can`t be indicted. 
 
The way I read that, the way I think that the special counsel`s office spelled out their findings here is, I feel like they have provided a road map to Congress -- or alternately to any prosecutors who may still have jurisdiction and may be operating within the statute of limitations with the president once he`s no longer president, that the president could be charged for obstruction of justice, on any number of these activities that are described such detail. 
 
That`s how I see it as a layman.  I know you`re a former prosecutor.  I know you`re a powerful committee chairman right now. 
 
Is that how you receive it? 
 
SCHIFF:  It is.  I think it`s pretty clear and contrary to what the attorney general was trying to spin in his memo, and during his press conference.  But the special counsel intended to leave that question to Congress.  Special counsel felt bound by those OLC opinions that he could not indict a sitting president, and wanted to preserve that evidence for Congress.  And frankly, until we see all of that, including the grand jury material, we take nothing off the table. 
 
I view this as right now in the position of preliminary to a judicial proceeding.  It cannot be the position of the Justice Department -- hey, we`re not going to give you evidence -- grand jury material as to a president who may have violated the law and allow you to determine whether an impeachment is warranted on one hand.  And, on the other hand, we believe we can`t indict the president, that`s effectively immunity. 
 
And one thing Bob Mueller made clear is, he doesn`t believe this president or anyone else is above the law.  So, we need to get all the unredacted -- we did get all redacted material, we need to get all the intelligence and foreign intelligence information from Bob Mueller, from the Justice Department, these underlying documents so we can make an informed judgment. 
 
But, yes, I think Mueller intended that for Congress to oversee and investigate. 
 
MADDOW:  Briefly, sir, do you anticipate you`ll be speaking with Robert Mueller soon?  Do you anticipate he`ll be testifying in intelligence in short order?  We`ve heard Congressman Nadler ask for him to testify before the Judiciary Committee before the end of May.  What`s your anticipation in terms of your committee? 
 
SCHIFF:  We have the same expectation, and I think as much as that testimony ought to be public testimony, perhaps all of it in the judiciary committee, and perhaps a bifurcated hearing in the Intelligence Committee. 
 
We want to make sure the department of justice doesn`t hide behind the Gang of Eight or anything else to try to prevent the American people from seeing this evidence, because it is damning.  At the end of the day, when you read this lengthy report, you learn that the president has repeatedly misled the country.  He`s urged others to mislead the country.  He`s tried to dangle rewards behind those that tow his line, even if it`s at odd to the fact he`s tried to insinuate he would punish those who go against him. 
 
There were countless contacts between the Trump people and the Russians that they sought to conceal and lie about.  All of this is damning and we all ought to, I think, expect more from our president than merely the protestation that he`s not a crook. 
 
MADDOW:  Congressman Adam Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee -- sir, I know your time is at a premium tonight.  Thank you for being here. 
 
SCHIFF:  Thank you. 

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