NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Jim Jordan
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
Republican Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio joins me now. Congressman Jordan, welcome to Meet the Press.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Good to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
Why do you think President Trump hired somebody like Michael Cohen as this close confidant for a decade?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Mr. Cohen said it was some real estate deal ten,12 years ago. Why he hired him, I don't know. What I do know is what I said at the hearing. And that is, Michael Cohen is going to prison in two months for four distinct federal crimes --
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- one of which is lying to Congress. And yet, the Democrats made him their star witness. Their first announced witness of the 116th Congress is a guy who is going to prison for lying to Congress. And guess what? He came in last Wednesday and did what? Lied to Congress --
CHUCK TODD:
The leading, the lead --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- six different times --
CHUCK TODD:
The president's --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- that's why we sent a letter to the Attorney General.
CHUCK TODD:
-- the President of the United States, the lead attorney for him and, essentially, unofficial political adviser for a decade, is this person you just --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
I don't know about a political adviser.
CHUCK TODD:
-- you just described, you just described. Well we can, we can -- different political advisers --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Even though he took credit for launching the Trump campaign --
CHUCK TODD:
But my point is --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- single-handedly.
CHUCK TODD:
-- again, does it bother you that Donald Trump surrounded himself -- kept this man as a confidant? For everything you've described him as, why did he keep him as a confidant?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
You'd have to ask the, you'd have to ask the president.
CHUCK TODD:
Does that bother you?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Not really. It doesn't.
CHUCK TODD:
Why?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
It just doesn't. What I know is what the president's done in his two years as president of the United States. The Democrats never want to talk about it. The press never seems to want to talk about this. Think about the two years under President Trump's leadership: taxes reduced, regulations reduced, economy growing at an unbelievable rate, lowest unemployment in 50 years, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh on the court. We're out of the Iran deal. Embassy's in Jerusalem. Hostages home from North Korea. And oh, by the way, there's a new NAFTA agreement coming, just to name a few things. So that's what I tend to focus on, is the amazing record we've seen under the leadership of President Trump. And you guys want to talk about a lawyer that worked for him for ten years that came in and told all kinds of lies, six of which he said -- six lies, which he said on the witness stand just last Wednesday.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this. Do you believe Michael Cohen, when he said there was no collusion with Russia?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
I believe a few things Michael Cohen said. Like, he said in the hearing, "My name is Michael Dean Cohen." I believe that. There's probably a few other things that we can prove. He said --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe he's never been to Prague?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
He said that. And that's something you can verify. You can look --
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- at passports. You can look at travel. So that undermines this whole dossier, which remember, was the basis for this whole, crazy investigation to begin with. So --
CHUCK TODD:
That's not, I mean, that isn't the facts. That's a --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
It's a big fact. --
CHUCK TODD:
It is something that you have --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
We've had this debate before.
CHUCK TODD:
No, I understand. It's something that you believe. But it has not been proven.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
No, it's the lead thing they took to the FISA court to get the warrant to go spy on the Trump campaign. And oh, by the way, it was paid for by --
CHUCK TODD:
Okay, but that's, it's still not been --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- the Clinton campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
-- it never was even proven --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Chuck, you know that's the case.
CHUCK TODD:
-- when you got, when you got these papers released to the public, you found out that that wasn't the truth.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And they didn't tell the court that the Clinton campaign paid -- never forget what happened there. The Clinton campaign paid the law firm, Perkins Coie, who hired Fusion GPS, who hired a foreigner. And what did that foreigner do? Talk to a couple Russians --
CHUCK TODD:
You left out the Repub -- You left out the Republican donor, who began the whole thing.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Put this dossier together that our F.B.I. used to go get the warrant to spy on the Trump campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you something. Why do you not want this investigation concluded by Robert Mueller?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
I want it concluded. I want it over with. But there's not, they're not going to --
CHUCK TODD:
But you continue, but you continue to question it and interfere with it. So how is it ever going to end, if you question and interfere with it?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
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I'm not questioning or interfering with it. I've just said -- it can be public. The president said he wants it to continue. He's allowed it to continue. It's going to continue. At some point, there'll be some investigation. And then the attorney general, Bill Barr, will decide, will follow the law and release what he wants to release and, maybe, release the whole thing. That's going to happen. We all know that. What we know is --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you want it all completely released? Donald Trump, Jr., does. Do you want it completely released?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Yeah, I'm open to whatever the attorney general decides. He should follow the law. He should follow the regulations. And if they release it all, I tend to think we should err on the side of transparency. I've been for that all along. I want the FISA applications released.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
I want the 302s from Bruce Ohr. I want all that information released, so we can get to the bottom of it, and the American people can know exactly what happened, when they launched this thing.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe the Russians interfered with the 2016 election?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Everyone said that they thought they were trying to impact the election.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe it?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
The question Mueller --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe it?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Yeah. I mean, of course. That's what the intelligence community has told us. But there is zero evidence --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
--zero --
CHUCK TODD:
-- they did it to try to help Donald Trump win?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Who knows why they did it. But there is zero evidence of any type of --
CHUCK TODD:
You think that it's possible? It sounds like --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- collusion --
CHUCK TODD:
-- you believe --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- coordination --
CHUCK TODD:
-- it's possible that Russians, for their own foreign-policy reasons, wanted Trump, not Clinton.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Why would -- I don't know. I mean, they can, thee can do whatever they -- whatever they're trying to do. Who knows what their motives were. What I know is there's not one bit of evidence to show any type of coordination, collusion, conspiracy, whatsoever, between the Trump campaign and Russia, to impact the election. But, but there is all kinds of evidence to show that the Clinton campaign worked with Russians to impact the elections via that whole thing I just described, where they hired the Perkins Coie law firm, who hired Fusion, who hired a foreigner, Christopher Steele, who communicated with Russians and put together the fake dossier.
CHUCK TODD:
Why do you think that Donald Trump hired somebody, like Paul Manafort, with ties to Russian mobsters? Why do you think that Paul Manafort decided to work for free for the Trump campaign?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
I have no idea. I have no idea.
CHUCK TODD:
Does any of that bother you --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
But you've got to remember --
CHUCK TODD:
-- considering all of his ties --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- they were doing this --
CHUCK TODD:
-- with the Russian government? I'm just asking --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
You've got to remember they were doing this --
CHUCK TODD:
Why does that, does none of that -- Does that deserve scrutiny?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
And it's getting all kinds of scrutiny. For goodness sake, Mr. Manafort's been indicted. So it's getting all kinds of scrutiny.
CHUCK TODD:
No, but do you believe it deserves scrutiny?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Well, that's what the special counsel is doing. He's -that's his call, not my call. So yeah, if they're looking at all that, that's fine. But that's not what this Wednesday was about. This was a guy coming in, who has zero credibility, and who has lied and is going to prison for lying. One of those lies, of course, was lying to Congress previously. And guess what he did. He came in front of Congress and told at least, at least, six different lies --
CHUCK TODD:
You are very concerned about --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- about the president.
CHUCK TODD:
-- a lot of the lying. Does it bother you that Paul Manafort, George Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn, Michael Cohen, all these people around the president, all these people around the president --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Do you know what bothers me?
CHUCK TODD:
-- has all been convicted or pled guilty to lying --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Do you know what bothers me most?
CHUCK TODD:
-- to either investigators or Congress? --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Here's what bothers --
CHUCK TODD:
-- there's a lot of liars around the president. Why?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Here's what bothers me most. Jim Comey, director of the F.B.I., fired, Andy McCabe, deputy director, fired.
CHUCK TODD:
So you're upset that he was fired?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
No, listen, lied three times under oath. Andy McCabe is under investigation. Jim Baker, chief counsel at the F.B.I., demoted then left, under investigation by the Justice Department. Peter Strzok, deputy head of counterintelligence, demoted then fired. Lisa Page, F.B.I. counsel, demoted then fired. --
CHUCK TODD:
It doesn't explain why the president --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- two of those people kicked off the Mueller team.
CHUCK TODD:
Why does the president surround himself with people who can't tell the truth?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
You're missing the big --
CHUCK TODD:
You're not answering my question about --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
You're missing the biggest problem --
CHUCK TODD:
Why does the president surround himself with people who can't tell the truth to law enforcement or Congress?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
When have you ever seen an agency where the top five people, who, oh, by the way, Chuck, ran the Clinton investigation, launched and ran the Russia investigation, have either been fired, demoted, or left the F.B.I., the top people?
CHUCK TODD:
Again, it doesn't -- you haven't answered the question I asked. Why does -- the president has surrounded himself with people who cannot tell the truth to law enforcement or congress?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
The president's surrounded himself with some people that, maybe, he shouldn't. I don't know. But when he was running this campaign, Mr. Manafort was there, was part of the campaign. Mr. Manafort had been involved with Republican politics before. Why he selected him, I don't know. What I'm most concerned about is what took place at the highest levels -- our committee is supposed to be the government oversight committee. We're supposed to look at abuses when, when government agencies do the kinds of things that I think they did, at the top levels of the F.B.I., that's what we're supposed to be focused on.
CHUCK TODD:
I am curious what you thought of this one comment by Michael Cohen. Take a listen.
[BEGIN TAPE]
MICHAEL COHEN:
I'm responsible for your silliness. Because I did the same thing that you're doing now, for ten years. And I can only warn people, the more people that follow Mr. Trump, as I did, blindly, are going to suffer the same consequences that I'm suffering.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Are you at all concerned you're, you're blind to something here?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
No, no. My focus is on getting to the bottom of things, getting to the truth. That's what we're supposed to do on the Oversight Committee, when we do investigations. That's my focus. As I've said, the record, under the president's leadership, the last two years is simply amazing, the things that have been accomplished for this country, both economically, on the courts, and a host of areas, foreign policy, as well. So that's my --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you concede that the president has not always told the truth on Russia?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
I don't think the president's lied about Russia at all.
CHUCK TODD:
Not once.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
There's been no collusion -- even --
CHUCK TODD:
Not about the Trump Tower Moscow --
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Chuck, even --
CHUCK TODD:
-- project?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
-- James Comey --
CHUCK TODD:
He didn't mislead the country on that?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
Even James Comey, even James Comey, when he -- when we deposed him, said, up until the day he was fired, May 9, 2017, said there was no evidence -- they were doing this investigation for a long time, no single bit of evidence to show any type of coordination between the Trump campaign --
CHUCK TODD:
Then why do you think the president didn't want to tell the country that he had a Trump Tower Moscow deal in the works?
REP. JIM JORDAN:
I don't know that. The president said one thing. And then you've got, you've got Michael Cohen saying something else.
CHUCK TODD:
Jim Jordan, the top Republican of the Oversight Committee, I'm guessing we will do this again.
REP. JIM JORDAN:
We will. Thanks, Chuck.
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