NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mark Warner

Interview

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CHUCK TODD:

And joining me now is the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner of Virginia. Senator Warner, welcome back to Meet the Press.

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Thank you, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

You also interviewed Michael Cohen this week. I think you had him the day before his House testimony.

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Nine hours.

CHUCK TODD:

Nine hours, fair enough. So -- and we had, pretty much, an eight- or nine-hour public hearing. So how was the exchange behind closed doors different than what the public saw on Wednesday?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Well, first of all, let's realize, this is a guy who is back before us, because he had lied to our Intelligence Committee about the fact that the ongoing negotiations on a tower to be built in Moscow went way beyond what he said and, frankly, what Donald Trump said. And I do think it's curious that Mr. Trump has spent more than a decade trying to build a building in Moscow, didn't get much traction. Suddenly, he becomes a candidate for president. And he's got all kinds of offers on the table.

CHUCK TODD:

Is that the only thing he lied about that you know of right now?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Well, again, we've got -- the three things that are in the public domain, that I think we need further investigation. How long were the negotiations going on for a Trump Tower Moscow? Obviously, beyond January. Did they go beyond even the convention? The president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, said they may have gone on through -- all the way through the election. I think most voters would have liked to have known that piece of information before they voted. Secondly, this allegation --

CHUCK TODD:

Is that a crime, though?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Well, it's not a -- not necessarily a crime. I'll let lawyers make a determination on that. But it would be, sure as heck, a relevant fact, that a candidate for president was trying to negotiate with a foreign power, Russia, offering the leader of that foreign power, Putin, a $50 million free penthouse. I think most Americans would say that's a relevant piece of information. The other two pieces of information that I think we need more on, Mr. Trump has said he didn't know anything about the WikiLeaks dump of information detrimental to Clinton. Mr. Cohen says that he was in the office, when Trump took a call from Julian Assange right, a day or two, before the dump of the information. We need to find out if that's true or not. And then we also heard testimony that Donald Trump, Jr., at least, indicated to Donald Trump about the infamous-now Trump Tower meeting that included his -- the president's son, the president's son-in-law, the president's campaign manager. Again, that meeting was not about Russian adoptions. It was about offering dirt on Hillary Clinton. We need to find out if all those things are true.

CHUCK TODD:

Was your entire focus of your portion of Michael Cohen only about the Russia portion? Or did you also spend time on the Trump Organization and the various outside-of-Russia parameters that you've been focused on?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Well, some of those facts came up. Some of the tawdry and inappropriate behavior, some of the payoffs. But that was not something that we focused on. Our investigation is the only bipartisan investigation that's still focused on counterintelligence. What happened in 2016? What level of collaboration, collusion? How do we make sure it doesn't happen again in the future?

CHUCK TODD:

Why do you believe Michael Cohen's suddenly telling you the truth now, when he lied to you last time?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Well again. This guy does not have a lot of veracity. We need to get documents. We are receiving additional documents from him to prove or disprove. But I'd also say, Donald Trump doesn't exactly have a great record of telling the truth, as well.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to play something that your -- the chair of the committee said, not too long ago, Richard Burr. Take a listen.

[BEGIN TAPE]

SEN. RICHARD BURR:

Well, I'm not sure how to put it any clearer than I said it before. We have no factual evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

What does that mean, "no factual evidence"?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Well, again, Richard Burr and I have worked together very well. We're going to continue to work together. I think there is enormous amounts of evidence. What you do with that evidence, where it leads, I'm reserving my judgment, until we finish the investigation.

CHUCK TODD:

Is it fair to call it circumstantial right now?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Well, let's go -- just go through the litany of what we know. The ongoing negotiations about Trump Tower, well into the campaign, I believe the fact that Mr. Trump knew about the, the dump of the WikiLeaks material, the fact that, clearly, the meeting at Trump Tower meeting, which was not described appropriately, in terms of offering dirt, the president's campaign manager sharing information, polling information with the Russians, the earlier instance, where Russians were offering, through one of the campaigns, Papadopoulos information. To me, that's all evidence. Where that evidence leads, in terms of a conclusion, and we've still got some of those key people to come back, I'm going to reserve judgment, until I'm finished. But anybody could -- there's no one that could factually say there's not plenty of evidence of collaboration or communications between Trump Organization and Russians.

CHUCK TODD:

There's a report, in the Washington Post, that indicates that your committee and the House Intelligence Committee, that one other angle to Michael Cohen's testimony has to do with a pardon or pardon shopping. What more can you tell us about this issue? Are you investigating whether a pardon offer was serious or not to Michael Cohen?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Chuck, I cannot comment on what went on in a classified setting.

CHUCK TODD:

Why? I say this, because at some point, it's starting to become, you know, it comes across as innuendo, when you can't say certain things. And yet, we see reports about it.

SEN. MARK WARNER:

When we receive information in a classified setting, we will investigate things that come up in classified settings. And there will be an appropriate time to have the reveal. But when we hear things in a classified setting, you know, that's, that's the duty I took on as vice chairman of the Intelligence Committee.

CHUCK TODD:

So you won't say whether this Washington Post story is correct or not.

SEN. MARK WARNER:

I'm not going to comment -- I'm not going to comment on that story.

CHUCK TODD:

All right. I want to throw another sound bite at you from the president yesterday. Take a listen.

[BEGIN TAPE]

DONALD TRUMP:

If you use your rights, if you use your power, if you use Article II, it's called obstruction, but only for Trump, for nobody else.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

So he's basically saying his firing of James -- I mean, this is about the firing of James Comey, that you cannot interpret that, under any way, as obstruction. Is that fair?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Well, again, I'll let lawyers make better judgments. But I will tell you this. An investigation into the president, and his organization, his campaign, involvement with Russians, a foreign power, a foreign, adversarial power, a power that this president has said nary a negative word about, a Russian despot that he, frankly, kowtowed to in front of the whole world in that hearing -- in that public testimony, public hearing in Helsinki, I think that's all inappropriate. And the notion that this president has done everything possible to undermine that investigation, from firing Comey to trying to undermine Mueller, to me, that does not seem appropriate.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you believe that Russian -- a Russian conspiracy without a -- actual evidence of a crime being committed, of a crime being committed, is enough to oust him from office?

SEN. MARK WARNER:

You know, you're going to get me into those conversations where I've not reached a final conclusion. What -- I do know this. I've been around politics a long time, just as you have. I have never, in my lifetime, seen a presidential campaign, from a person of either party, have this much outreach to a foreign country and a foreign country that the intelligence community, and our committee has validated, intervened, massively, in our election and intervened with an attempt to help one candidate, Donald Trump, and to hurt another candidate, Hillary Clinton.

CHUCK TODD:

It sounds like you've made your conclusion. "

SEN. MARK WARNER:

That's, that's --

CHUCK TODD:

You're close to a conclusion.

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Those are the facts that we have all agreed to, on a bipartisan basis. What level of collaboration, collusion, cooperation, we've clearly got repeated efforts from the Russians. We clearly have evidence from Donald Trump's own son, saying he would welcome that information. But again, I'm going to reserve my final judgment, until we collect all the information. And candidly, some of the key people that we want to see are still caught up in the Mueller criminal investigations. And those criminal investigations need to conclude, before we get a chance to talk to them.

CHUCK TODD:

Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, thanks for coming on and sharing your views, sir. Much appreciated.

SEN. MARK WARNER:

Thank you, Chuck.

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