Fox News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Rep. Jim Himes on where the Democratic Party stands in a post-Mueller Report world

Interview

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WALLACE: Democrats are threatening to issue a subpoena unless Attorney General Barr sends them the full Mueller report by this Tuesday.

So what did they make of Barr's plan now to send it to Congress by mid- April if not sooner?

Joining us from Connecticut, Congressman Jim Himes, the number two Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, let's start with what you told your local newspaper in Connecticut this week about whether the Mueller report clears the president on the issue of collusion with the Russians. Here's what you told them.

I'm not sure I would break out a lot of champagne. They try to make the case that the Mueller report says there's no evidence of collusion. There's plenty of evidence.

But, Congressman, now I'm taking the counterargument to what I was discussing with Kellyanne. It doesn't say there's plenty of evidence of collusion.

REP. JIM HIMES, D-CT: No, what the Mueller -- well, first of all, nobody knows what the Mueller report says, because we haven't seen it. We've got the four-page Barr summary.

And even though my Republican friends are attacking Adam Schiff and others by saying that the Mueller report says no evidence, that's not at all what it says. If you read the Barr letter, the Barr letter says that the investigation was not able to establish. So, Chris, two things --

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: No, excuse me. With all due respect, sir, that's absolutely incorrect. I'm going to put up on the screen because we know that this probably was going to come up, the specific quote from Attorney General Barr.

Here's what he says: The special counsel did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts despite multiple offers from Russian affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.

So, specifically the special counsel is not saying there is insufficient evidence to prosecute. He saying it didn't happen.

HIMES: Right. So, again, two things are possible at the same time. Number one, whatever happened, and there's 400 pages of report that we are going to see, so something happened or it wouldn't be 400 pages long. But whatever happened, the conclusion is that it's not a chargeable offense.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: No, again, sir, respectable, he didn't say it's not a chargeable offense. He said the report did not find that the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated.

HIMES: Right.

WALLACE: On the issue of obstruction, he said, I've got some issues as to whether it's a prosecutable offense. He didn't say that when it came to collusion.

HIMES: Right, Chris, but my own quote, which you read back to me, was saying that there was not a finding of no evidence. And that is also true. So, the conclusion is that there was not explicit collusion, conspiracy, but that does not mean that there is no evidence, OK?

Now, that's sort of a fine point. But here's the big picture -- we are accepting that, and Adam Schiff and his famous speech of last week said, we are accepting the conclusion of Bob Mueller -- something. of course, that the Republicans did not do on Benghazi, on Uranium One, on Clinton emails.

We are accepting that and we want to see the report and this is why I say I wouldn't break out the champagne just yet, for two reasons. One, the conclusion, despite what Kellyanne Conway just told you, is not clear on obstruction, and number two, again, at 400 pages, we are all speculating about what's in there, but we know about Don Jr.'s meeting in Trump Tower.

WALLACE: OK.

HIMES: We know about many people going to jail for lying about Russia. My guess is that when you see the whole report, you will see good reasons, good reasons for why a number of people, a lot of people were concerned by the possibility, since disproved, that the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians.

WALLACE: OK, let's move onto another subject, and that is that House Democrats are demanding that Attorney General Barr turnover the entire Mueller report by this Tuesday, two days from now.

Here is basically Barr's response to that. Barr says that you're going to get it by mid-April, which is two weeks from now, if not sooner. He says he's going to redact grand jury testimony and intelligence material but he says the White House won't get to review it for executive privilege. No White House review for executive of which, which I know it's a big concern of yours.

Isn't that a reasonable plan, Congressman?

HIMES: Well, I'll say a couple things. Number one, it is absolutely reasonable that they remove all classified information from a report. My guess is it contains a lot of classified information because it pertains to Russia. Absolutely reasonable.

Grand jury information, a little more ambiguous. Congress theoretically has the right to that. And then there's that third category, which you didn't mention of information that may be potentially embarrassing to third parties. And then -- but remember, we're talking about a difference of ten days here or so, and so my guess is that this is going to be something that can be negotiated away so that we wind up, as everybody agrees we should, with the Mueller report.

WALLACE: So, in other words, if it's just a matter of ten days or so, this Tuesday as opposed to two weeks from then, you're saying that there won't be a subpoena and you'll take yes for an answer.

HIMES: Well, we'll see. I think -- my guess is that Jerry Nadler and others are probably actually in communication with Barr and with the Department of Justice on the nature of what is slowing them down.

Now, remember, Congress can and does see classified information, so it's also possible that the Department of Justice can convey the report just to Congress in a closed environment.

But by the way, just to come back to the executive privilege thing, remember, what Barr said was that the president has publicly indicated that he wants the report released and therefore we don't anticipate executive privilege claims. But, look, this could get reversed tomorrow morning if the president decides that he wants to change his mind on that. This is a president who has changed his mind in the past. So, we are sensitive to that possibility.

WALLACE: All right. Let's move on to Adam Schiff, who you talked about and also Kellyanne Conway talked about.

The president and House Republicans, particularly Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee, are going after Adam Schiff. He, of course, is chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. You're the number two Democrat on that committee. Take a look at their -- what they're saying.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: Little pencil neck Adam Schiff.

There could still have been some Russia collusion. Sick. Sick. These are sick people.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, R-CALIF., HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: All Americans should be concerned with a chairman of the House Intelligence Committee taking the position of judge and jury.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: So, House Republicans are saying that Schiff should step down as chairman of House Intelligence. The president has tweeted that he thinks that Schiff should be forced to resign from Congress.

Your reaction?

HIMES: Well, look, the American people will need to decide what they think about a president who poisons our political dialogue by going after people's physical characteristics, calling him pencil neck, et cetera.

On the substance here, you just need to watch what Adam Schiff said last week in the committee. First of all, he is we accept Mueller's findings. Something the Republicans could never find it in their hearts or minds to do with respect to Benghazi, the Clinton e-mails, Uranium One, I could go on and on. He said we accept the findings. We're not going to do ten investigations the way they did on Benghazi.

Second, he said, I do not believe it is appropriate for people to lie about contacts with Russians. When the report comes out, what the American people will learn was that there was plenty of reason to be concerned about the nature of those contacts and the possibility of what those contacts might have meant.

WALLACE: But --

HIMES: So I don't see Adam Schiff as having done anything at all wrong. And, in fact --

WALLACE: Well, it --

HIMES: Purporting (ph) himself far more responsibly than the Republicans ever did on Benghazi and the many ginned-up (ph) scandals that they had.

WALLACE: Well, let me -- let me -- let me point out what I think sticks in a lot of Republicans craws, and that's what they say Adam Schiff, in the run-up to the Mueller report, said repeatedly that he thought there was a good chance that President Trump had committed a crime. Here's some clips of Adam Schiff in just the last couple of months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHIFF.: My takeaways is there's a very real prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office the Justice Department may indict him.

So there's clear evidence on the issue of collusion and this adds to that body of evidence.

The bigger pardon question may come down the road as the next president has to determine whether to pardon Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Is that appropriate for the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, which is basically and traditionally been seen as non-partisan, above politics -- not always, and I agree in recent years not at all -- but above politics, a fact-finding committee to be talking openly about the president being indicted, the next president having to pardon him before he even knew the results of the report?

HIMES: Well, we don't need to have the conversation we had previously about whether there was reason to be concerned, evidence or reason, whatever you want to call it, that the president's campaign might be compromised. You know, we -- it's all out there for people to see from the Don Junior meeting, to so many people lying about contacts with Russia. There was reason for this investigation.

Now, when -- when Adam Schiff says that there is a possibility that the president might be indicted after his presidency, remember, Chris, as we sit here today, any number of U.S. attorneys in the Southern District of New York and elsewhere continue their investigations of the president.

WALLACE: So -- so basically you're not -- I understand that. So basically you're not troubled by that?

HIMES: Well, again, I don't think Adam said anything that wasn't factual.

Adam never said the president is guilty of this. He himself is a former prosecutor. He is more careful than that. He said there was evidence. Again, the American people can judge the facts that they know today before the report has been released. As to whether they would have criticized Barack Obama if Barack Obama's daughter had met with Russians looking for dirt on Barack Obama's political foes.

WALLACE: OK.

HIMES: They can make that judgment. But until the full report is out, people should reserve judgment on what Adam Schiff knows or doesn't know, because Adam Schiff, as chairman of that committee, had access to lots of information that the public does not yet have.

WALLACE: Congress --

HIMES: Again, I don't say that because I think there's a surprise. We accept the conclusion of the report. But I don't think Adam Schiff said anything that wasn't true in his -- in the statements you played there.

WALLACE: Congressman Himes, thank you. Thanks for sharing part of your weekend with us. Always good to talk with you, sir, and we'll stay on top of what your committee does next.

HIMES: Thank you, Chris.

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