CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Himes

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BOLDUAN: OutFront with me tonight the Democratic Congressman Jim Himes. He's a Member of the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman, thank you so much for being here. So there is quite a bit that could be happening tonight and it is going on with regard to the Russia investigation.

We know already that Manafort, barring a pardon, is likely to effectively be facing a life sentence for the crimes that he has pleaded guilty to. You and with the case the Special Counsel has brought against him, your committee had been investigating Russian collusion for quite some time and that will pick up once again. Do you think Paul Manafort is the linchpin to collusion with Russia if there is?

[19:05:00]

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, DEMOCRAT: Well, he could be. He could be and as you've pointed out now tonight, his contact with Konstantin Kilimnik is probably the most interesting and questionable element of all of these many, many Russian contacts whether if it's Don Jr. in Trump Tower or Michael Cohen on building a tower in Moscow. Here's the thing and this is something that people might not appreciate that if you haven't run a bunch of elections you might not fully understand, polling data which Mueller would have us believe was conveyed to Konstantin Kilimnik is the fuel, is the raw material that drives any campaigns.

BOLDUAN: It's everything, yes.

HIMES: That tells you who you target, what odds you run, what you say and so if in fact that is true and the other thing that people need to understand is that was Kilimnik a Russian agent. In the United States we have people who work for the CIA, who work for the FBI, who work for the government and then everybody else doesn't work for the government. That distinction does not exist in Russia.

There are all sorts of people in the shadows, oligarchs and others who are seeking favors with the Kremlin. Exactly how connected he is to Vladimir Putin or the Kremlin is open to interpretation, but it's quite possible and it's possible and it's alleged that Kilimnik took this information which is the raw material of any campaign and conveyed it to the Russians. We need to know exactly what happened there.

BOLDUAN: According to Bloomberg News, prosecutors as Evan was getting to, prosecutors here in Manhattan in the DA's office, they're now preparing state criminal charges. Basically, so it is - so they're pardon-proof when it comes to - if that would come about against Paul Manafort because he has connections to Manhattan and they could do that. Do you think he's going to get a pardon? Where do you think this is?

HIMES: Well, I'm glad that the Special Counsel is sort of putting in place an insurance policy, because I mean let's just look at the facts of the way the President has talked about the possibility of pardons, two things. One; he has not ruled out pardons. You would think if a President wanted to set the country's mind that he would say, "Look, this involves me. There's a lot of interconnections, so no one associated with this is going to be pardoned." He has not said that.

And think about the language that he has used. He's praised on Twitter. He has praised people including Manafort who haven't cooperated with the Special Counsel and he called Michael Cohen and others who did cooperate with the Special Counsel rats. This is the language and I don't want to overstate this, I'm not saying the President is clearly guilty of crimes, but when you call somebody who's cooperating a rat and you praise somebody who's not cooperating, I mean this is right out of the Godfather.

BOLDUAN: We are expecting the Mueller report in the coming weeks. I mean it seems like it's really wrapping up next week unlikely now maybe the week after that. Will Congress and the public sees, once that's turned in, it's really up to the Attorney General? The regulation requires essentially him to say, "Investigation is done." And he doesn't have to give beyond that and I do wonder if that and he surely hasn't made any promises that he would, do you think you are going to see the report?

HIMES: I'm pretty sure we are going to see the report. And look, there's a couple of things that ...

BOLDUAN: By force or by virtue of offering it up?

HIMES: ... well, that's that, of course, it's precisely the question. Look, there's a couple things at play here and I would suggest there are sort of two things that are important and then there's one thing that is overwhelmingly important. The two things that are important is that we can't really sort of report that would compromise sources and methods, that would put at risk people who work with the CIA or the FBI. That's important. We can deal with that.

And, of course, prosecutors typically if somebody is not charged they don't want to damage somebody's reputation by putting up, but - now remember first of all the FBI crossed that particular Rubicon long ago when James Comey I think wrongly decided to tell the American public that they had investigated Hillary Clinton, that there were no charges, so they've crossed that Rubicon.

But thirdly here's the really big thing. The Mueller investigation, of course, has torn our politics apart for two years now and the idea that this report of, whatever it is, 500 pages is going to sit in a safe somewhere while the American public looks at itself as, "What just happened?" That's absurd. There is a powerful, powerful public interest in making sure that whatever the truth is that it's out there.

Look, the report may say that the President is guilty of absolutely no collusion. If that's the case, put it out there. If there are questions, put it out there. We can follow up. It has to get out there and as you point out, if it doesn't happen voluntarily, we will in all likelihood subpoena that report.

BOLDUAN: We will see that fight I think soon. You mentioned Michael Cohen next week he will be back on Capitol Hill. He's going to testify in public, but he is also going to be behind closed doors. He's going to be speaking to your committee as well as at the Senate Intel, what do you want to know from him? HIMES: Well, all we know about Michael Cohen telling the truth is

what he told the Special Counsel and what the Special Counsel reported in the various memos we've seen. So he's going to jail because he lied to Congress, so naturally Congress probably wants to ask a bunch of those questions that we asked before and I also think that quite apart from us answering those questions, presumably he answered those questions for the Special Counsel, the other thing we're going to get, this is what I think is really pretty harsh on the White House, it's not likely that Michael Cohen is going to reveal something dramatic illegal behavior on the part of the President or the President's people.

[19:10:03]

That would be something that the Special Counsel would say, "Hey, you can't talk about that." But you can expect Michael Cohen after he's been beaten up by this President, in some ways dragged through the mud by the President's people, you can bet he's going to talk a lot about the President's behavior. And this is a President, of course, who in public behaves in ways that we wouldn't tolerate from our teenage kids. So you can imagine the kind of stories that Michael Cohen may decide to tell and that's going to be ugly for the White House.

BOLDUAN: And then yet another person coming up to Capitol Hill where it then gets down to the credibility of the person that is testifying and what you'll hear.

HIMES: Yes. Well, that will be a big fight. Yes.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. Good to see you. Thank you so much for coming here, Congressman.

HIMES: Thanks, Kate.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source