CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Hirono

Interview

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KEILAR: And joining me now is Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii. She's a member of the Judiciary and Armed Services Committees. You just heard Jake Tapper's reporting there, Senator. Do you think that this is an impeachable offense?

[17:10:01] SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I had to think about that a little bit, because where do we start? You know, I would say that we should start with the full disclosure of the Mueller report and ultimately, the cumulative number of all of these kind of things where he's basically from your reporting or what Jake just said is that the president -- there are two things that the president thinks about immigrants. One, he doesn't think they're human beings. And two, he doesn't think the law applies to him. So whether he was joking or not, what he said to McAleenan is just, go ahead, break the law, I will pardon you. That is -- that's the president.

KEILAR: Are you concerned -- that may be the president, but are you concerned about that?

HIRONO: Of course. Just about everything the president says and all his so-called decision making gives me major pauses of concern.

KEILAR: Do you believe that denial from the Department of Homeland Security that the president ever pressured or even mentioned this to Kevin McAleenan? HIRONO: I thought your reporting was that nobody denied that he actually said this to Kevin. So that's really cause for concern. But then if you --

KEILAR: So I guess the perception of it, right, the being pressured. So they didn't deny that he said it, but the idea, I guess, that he was perceived as being pressured. Do you believe that (CROSSTALK) or do you think -- there's almost some plausible deniability built in there maybe?

HIRONO: I would say with this president, if you're going to get into his cabinet or going to get into his administration, you better be prepared to toe the line and be a yes person, otherwise you do not last long. So you already know that. Is that pressure? I'd say so. So when he says things like that, and he can wink and all that, but I think we know where he's going.

So again, you can explain his attitude towards the immigration issue. One, he doesn't think they're human beings. And you know I happen to be an immigrant myself and I'm sure you, if you have immigrant roots, this is a country of immigrants. So, one, he doesn't think immigrants are human beings.

And two, he doesn't have to apply the law with regard to his treatment of them. So all of these winking statements and whatever, everybody knows that when you join the Trump administration, you nod "yes" at every, basically, I would say insane and unsupportable, illegal things he comes up with.

KEILAR: Do you want to hear Kevin McAleenan testify before Congress, before your committee? What do you want to understand from him? What do you want to learn?

HIRONO: If he is going to become the nominee for Homeland Security, one of the major things for me has always been, how independent are you going to be? If the president asks you to do something unethical or illegal, are you going to give up your position? Are you going to stand up to the president?

KEILAR: The president also -- and this is our other breaking news that we're following today, Senator, confirming that he is considering releasing immigrant detainees into sanctuary cities, really undercutting what his White House said, they tried to make it sound like this was something that was just considered briefly and then dismissed. The idea being that he would retaliate against his political opponents. Do you take that as a serious threat?

HIRONO: I don't even know if the word serious can be applied to the president and his ideas and decisions.

KEILAR: Do you think he would do this? Do you think he would really do this?

HIRONO: Oh, sure, I think he's capable of doing anything. After all, he separated little children from their mothers and a lot of these children have still to be reunited. So he did that. There's a level of uncaring cruelty to the president that is off the charts.

KEILAR: The president says Democrats are actually coming around to his view that there's a crisis on the southern border, that they're increasingly using the word crisis. How do you respond to that?

HIRONO: There is a humanitarian crisis at the southern border. And let's remember who's coming across seeking asylum. It's children and families, whereas before, it used to be single males, mainly coming through Mexico. The entire characteristics of who's coming to our country seeking asylum has changed dramatically. And why? Because of the danger, murders, and lawlessness in Central America.

So what we ought to be doing is recognizing that we are part of that problem, because all of that drug money that fuels the murder and lawlessness in the Central American countries where these families are fleeing from is the insatiable need for appetite for drugs in our own country. So we need to provide aid and support to enable these countries to provide safety. Let's hope the rule of law and economic opportunities. But that's exactly what the president is not doing. He's just trying to, well, as I said, he thinks immigrants are not human beings and he can break the law with regard to them.

[17:15:07] KEILAR: He said he may -- he may need to send more troops to the border, as well. What's your reaction to that?

HIRONO: And what are these troops going to be doing? Because if they're going to be doing anything that relates to law enforcement, et cetera, and not just being ancillary. That is not their charge and that would lead to more lawsuits.

This is what happens. This is a characteristic of the Trump administration. He goes and does whatever he wants and all these lawsuits ensue. And thankfully, you know, the independence of the Judiciary, which he could also give a rip about, because he keeps saying, oh, the Judiciary, they're all against us. No, they're actually upholding the law. So the independence of the Judiciary, it becomes even more important with this administration that goes not just close to the edge of breaking the law, but beyond, leading to all of these lawsuits. What a waste of resources.

KEILAR: Senator Hirono, thank you so much for joining us from Capitol Hill.

HIRONO: Thank you.

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