CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Krishnamoorthi

Interview

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BLITZER: We'll see next Wednesday what she decides. All right, Shimon, thanks very much.

Joining us now Democratic congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. He's a member of the Intelligence and the Oversight Committees that heard both private and public testimony from Michael Cohen.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D), MEMBER, OVERSIGHT AND INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEES: Thank you, Wolf.

So the president tweeted that Michael Cohen directly asked him for a pardon and he said no. Michael Cohen testified under oath before your committee that he never asked for a pardon from the president.

Whom do you believe?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Pardon me, Wolf.

No, I'm just kidding.

I think obviously in the oversight hearing Mr. Cohen made a statement. But he testified for two days in the Intel Committee about various matters. I can't get into the specific testimony; however, I would strongly urge people to review that testimony once it comes out, once Chairman Schiff publishes it before they jump to any conclusions about this particular controversy.

BLITZER: Can you tell us without getting into sensitive information that may have been released and still confidential at this point, can you tell us who is more credible on this issue of whether Michael Cohen asked personally for a pardon?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think your previous guess was be correct. There needs to be corroboration with regard to statements made by anybody with regard to this issue. Michael Cohen brought a lot of documents to the hearings in the Intel Committee.

I think people should look at documents and at his testimony and the interview transcript. Right now I think Chairman Schiff is trying to weigh two things.

On the one hand, trying to publish the interview transcripts so that the public can see it but on the other hand making sure that he doesn't inadvertently shape, alter or taint the testimony of future witnesses that are coming before the Intel Committee.

BLITZER: Did Michael Cohen have documents that corroborate his allegation that he never asked for a pardon?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I can't get into the specifics of it. I really think people should wait to review this before they jump to conclusions.

The one thing I can say, which is widely known, is that the president has been using the pardon power in a very unconventional way. He's been dangling pardons through tweets and other behavior.

Recently with the Manafort case, you saw the White House said the other day, we are not taking the pardons off the table with regard to Manafort. Then almost in a call and response type of dialogue, Manafort's lawyer comes back and says there was no collusion with Russian officials as in this particular case.

So I think there's this strange use of the pardon power. It could potentially be obstruction of justice. But again, we have to let the evidence play out.

BLITZER: The other day in open session, when you asked Michael Cohen about his last communication with President Trump, he told you he couldn't reveal what they discussed because it is under investigation by the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Do you believe that investigation is related to pardons or obstruction or both?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: It could be. Again, I don't have all of the answers on that particular point and that question was asked and it was partly addressed but not fully addressed because I think the Southern District of New York is also very concerned --

[17:15:00]

KRISHNAMOORTHI: -- about him talking too much about their ongoing investigation.

That being said I will reiterate one thing, which is I believe we in Congress have a duty to get to the bottom of even those particular allegations over wrongdoing. At this point the DOJ is run by William Barr, who has made it clear he may not release the results of any investigation that's currently underway either by special counsel Mueller or by the various U.S. attorneys, including Southern District of New York.

BLITZER: He says he will release as much as he can without violating existing rules and guidelines by the Justice Department.

That's not good enough for you, is it?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Remember, one of the guidelines is that they won't release information in a case where they don't indict the suspect. In this particular instance, one of the suspects is the president. They have competing guidance that says you can't indict a sitting president.

So it's one of those situations where almost certainly he will be able to refer to that guidance, where the special counsel can't indict the sitting president, and potentially use that as a means of shrouding not only the report that special counsel Mueller issues ultimately but also the underlying evidence supporting that report.

That can be said about the investigations in the Southern District of New York and elsewhere.

BLITZER: I want to ask about the committee's investigation into the White House security clearances issue. Axios is reporting that someone inside the White House gave your committee documents related to Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's security clearances.

Is that true?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't know. What I can say is that Jared Kushner has no business having access to top security material or top secret material. He has numerous unreported foreign contacts and tremendous financial vulnerabilities, which make him susceptible to financial manipulation.

Third and most important, almost every law enforcement official who looked at his case and, in fact, Ivanka's case apparently said they should not have access to top secret clearance.

Yet the president overrode that judgment and then concealed that he overrode that judgment, saying he had nothing to do with their security clearance process. I think they should voluntarily comply with Chairman Cummings' request regarding the security process.

If they don't, I think Chairman Cummings will look at the subpoena power. If he goes that route, I think he'll have a lot of support, including from people like me.

BLITZER: Congressman Krishnamoorthi, thanks for joining us.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you.

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