CNN "Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. DeSaulnier

Interview

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BALDWIN: Let's start there on that point. I have with me Congressman Mark DeSaulnier. He's also a member of the House Oversight.

Congressman DeSaulnier, thank you so much for coming on.

REP. MARK DESAULNIER, (D), CALIFORNIA: My pleasure. Thanks for asking.

BALDWIN: Do you agree with your colleague? Do you want John Kelly to appear before the committee?

DESAULNIER: From what I've read this morning, yes. But we have a great chairman, Elijah Cummings, so I trust Elijah completely, but we have a lot of things on our plate as was mentioned.

BALDWIN: Today, after announcing this probe into White House security clearance processes in January, you mentioned your committee chairman, Elijah Cummings, sent this new letter asking the White House to comply with requests for documents and for witnesses based upon this major piece in the "New York Times" today. And so he said it is his final time requesting, quote/unquote, "voluntary cooperation." Congressman, if the Trump administration doesn't respond to you guys, would you be willing to subpoena the president's son-in-law?

DESAULNIER: Of course. I think this is a period where the White House is testing us. This is new to them, having the Democrats in charge thanks to the American voters, but this is the way we are supposed to act as an independent, equal branch of government. This is a testing period, excuse me. We have to stand up to that test.

BALDWIN: We're now not just talking about how this involves the president, his son-in-law, but also his daughter, Ivanka Trump, because, in the "Washington Post" today, they report that Ivanka Trump is the one who pressured her dad to approve her husband's security clearance. But just a couple weeks ago, when she was on ABC, she said that there was no influence from her father and that he had zero to do with the clearance for her husband. Do you think those clearances, temporarily, Congressman, should be revoked?

DESAULNIER: Yes, they should, until we get to the bottom of it. This is extremely important. One of the things we learned from the Cohen hearing, one line he mentioned in his opening statement that particularly stuck with me was the culture of lying within the Trump inner circle. I think this is the norm. This is becoming clearer and clearer. So we have to get to the truth.

BALDWIN: The culture of lying is the norm. You mentioned the Cohen hearings, let's go back there from the hours

you sat and the questions you asked, what did you consider an indisputable crime?

DESAULNIER: I was particularly taken -- if a modern-day Rip Van Winkle had come into that hearing room and didn't know who was involved, they would think we were talking about an organized crime syndicate. There was so much, as you mentioned earlier in your statement and as Gerry said. I was particular taken with on what he lied to Congress in the first place and what he's going to jail for in regard to the relationship with Russia and the Trump Tower. And this was all taking place at the same time that the Russians were trying to influence the election to get him elected. It certainly looks very, very bad.

BALDWIN: Do you think there's enough evidence to subpoena the president's tax returns?

DESAULNIER: Yes. We should have them. The foundation itself -- we never got to a lot of the questions that I wanted to ask about the foundation and gifts to the foundation that he ran through -- through the foundation.

BALDWIN: I hear you on all these. Yes, yes, yes.

What about this big question, because another split reaction in your party is to whether or not Cohen's testimony from Wednesday actually really creeks that door even further open for impeachment. Where do you stand?

DESAULNIER: I think we've just got to focus here. There's a lot of ways, easy ways to get distracted. I think, again, Chairman Cummings is right on. We've got to follow the facts to the truth. Part of impeachment is showing the American public that it's actually something we should do. And since there's so many American who still doubt that, we just get control, we just get control of the House, and we got control of the oversight functions. There's so much there. But I think we need to get obviously to the truth. And we'll follow the facts to the truth and we have to do it in a way that the American public sees what's happening and trusts us that we're not being overly partisan.

[14:40:17] BALDWIN: Last question, I was reading this morning, you were in college, Congressman, during Watergate, is that correct?

DESAULNIER: Yes.

BALDWIN: So as you were, you know, sitting there in the thick of this hearing and one of the ones asking the questions, I understand you were harkening back to your college days and actually watching the Watergate hearings on television. What were you thinking? What were you feeling? What were the similarities for you?

DESAULNIER: Other than the difficulty admitting my age, what I was thinking is just for me personally being 10 feet away from the president's personal attorney, thinking of John Dean. But then the scope of things here are much more serious than that. Just the WikiLeaks is more than Nixon ever got a hold of. I think the seriousness of this situation for the country is actually much more to be concerned about than Watergate.

BALDWIN: Congressman Mark DeSaulnier, thank you very much, sir.

DESAULNIER: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

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