CNN "Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Kennedy

Interview

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SCIUTTO: There's the president there, making that claim, and is one he's made many times. So what are the facts about this? Are immigrants more likely to commit crimes?

[09:20:00] Here's what we know about stats on immigration and crime broadly. Two-thousand and eighteen study by the libertarian Cato Institute which reviewed criminal conviction data from the Texas Department of Public Safety, of course, Texas a border state, found that immigrants whether legal or illegal are in fact less likely than native-born Americans to be convicted of a crime.

Have a look at the figures there. It's a big difference there, in fact, about half as likely. More broadly, when you look across the country, generally, there's been a decrease in the number of violent crimes, this according to the FBI. Other studies have found that murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault have not increased alongside an uptick in undocumented immigration since 1990.

Have a look at this, and keep in mind, these are national studies here. No increase in murder rate, robbery and aggravated assault to go with that rise in immigration, illegal immigration. That illegal immigrants do not contribute to an increase in drug overdoses and DUI or engage -- that they engage in crime less than their American or illegal immigrant peers.

And let -- this is a claim that the president has repeatedly made that undocumented immigrants, both during his campaign -- he's made this claim as a justification for that wall, and of course we should note to attract attention to this claim, this is the second time that he's invited family members of victims of such crime to the State of the Union.

So our verdict on this one, as we run it through the Cnn fact-checking team, a misleading claim at best. Joining me now for his reaction to this and other claims by the president during his speech, Senator John Kennedy; Republican from the great state of Louisiana, also a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator, thanks very much for taking the time this morning.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R), LOUISIANA: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So first on that issue because we've just come out of this fact-check here. You've heard the president make this connection before, you're from Louisiana, not exactly a border state, but you're very close to the Mexico border.

If this is truly a national crisis, why does the president fudge the facts here? Why not stick to the facts as you're making this argument, particularly when, as you heard the president last night, makes a claim that he wants a more bipartisan, more cooperative environment?

KENNEDY: I can't answer that, Jim, that you're going to have to ask the president that one. The way I look at it is -- the way -- they're giving me directions here from the side, I'm sorry. The way I look at it is illegal immigrants commit crimes, legal immigrants commit crimes, non-immigrant Americans commit crimes, that is not really the issue with respect to immigration.

The issue with respect to immigration is that, in my opinion is that legal immigration, I think we all concede and agree with, makes our country stronger, but illegal immigration is illegal, and one way -- and you know how I feel about this. One way, not the only way, but a big part of the way to curtail illegal immigration is through a wall.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. Again, you heard the president mention bipartisanship a number of times as you know --

KENNEDY: Yes --

SCIUTTO: The key, there's some agreement here, here's money some money for the wall. What we didn't hear from the president is an offer in return. He's demanding money --

KENNEDY: Right --

SCIUTTO: For the wall, he's saying that this is a crisis. What is he willing to offer Democrats again at the table? I mean, as you know better than me, Washington is about horse training here, why not an offer from the president to say, OK, listen, work with me on this, I will work with you for instance on permanent protection for the Dreamers?

KENNEDY: One of the most difficult lessons I've learned in life and in politics is that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think the president does deserve credit for trying to be conciliatory last night. He's not a turn-the-other-cheek kind of guy.

I think he believes if you turn the other cheek too far, you just get it in the neck, and that hurts him sometimes in terms of reaching people. They don't want to hear his ideas. The president -- and maybe this is one of those cases, the president has put a plan on the table.

I think he is willing to trade border security for DACA relief. He has talked about the importance, as has Speaker Pelosi, the importance of securing our ports of entry, for example, and the -- and the use of technology in terms of border security.

The times I've talked to the president on this issue, he's never been angry with Speaker Pelosi, he's never said an ugly word, and he's always told me, look, I'm willing to sit down with the Democrats and try to work something out here. This is really not meant to be a political statement, this is just my point of view.

I think -- I think the ball here is in Speaker Pelosi's court.

SCIUTTO: Well, but --

KENNEDY: And she's got to decide whether she thinks or wants -- thinks a barrier or wall or whatever we're calling it today, whatever the politically correct term is, whether it's necessary or not, and whether it's politically palatable to her.

[09:25:00] SCIUTTO: But you -- but you know as well as me -- and then listen, I will grant you that the speaker has been -- has dug her heels -- other Democrats have dug their heels --

KENNEDY: Sure --

SCIUTTO: On this issue, saying at times, not a single dollar for the wall, although we have heard signs from her in the caucus that maybe they will give money here. But let's be frank, again, you know as well as me that to get this done, you're going to need compromise on both sides.

KENNEDY: Sure --

SCIUTTO: What does that compromise look like in your view? If you were sitting in that room with 17 bipartisan senators and lawmakers, what would be your proposal to get this over the finish line to avoid another shutdown?

KENNEDY: Well, if I were king for a day, I'm not and I don't aspire to be. The first thing I would do --

SCIUTTO: Well, let's imagine --

KENNEDY: I would -- well, first thing I would do is go right to the bottom line with the speaker. I would ask the speaker to attend the meetings because she's calling the shots behind the scenes, and I would -- I'd probably get everybody out of the room, and I would say madam speaker, look, let's cut to the chase here.

Are you going to agree to any sort of wall, barrier, fence, whatever the politically correct term is, whatever the term she's most comfortable with, and if she is, if she's willing to work with us there, then we can come up with an agreement. It would probably include other forms of border security.

It would include some sort of legal protection, my guess is for DACA. But if she's not willing to do that for whatever reason, she doesn't think it's necessary, she doesn't want to do it because of the politics, then we're wasting our time, and it's time to move on.

I think what's going to happen if that happens on the 15th is the president is going to declare a national emergency, it's not my preferred choice, but unlike some of my Senate colleagues, the sun will come up the next day and it will probably be tied up in litigation, which I regret, but eventually, the courts will decide.

SCIUTTO: But how do Americans -- what do you say to your constituents? It's Congress' job by the constitution to make decisions about how money is spent here, and I know that there's this national emergency law passed in the 1970s, but the fact is, it has never been used for a significant funding request like this that a president can't get through Congress.

And as you said, your Republican colleagues, some of them, big supporters of the president, John Cornyn among them, and said this is a constitutional question. Why is that not a constitutional question? Should that be up to the Senate and the House to be able to sort this out rather than throw it to a national emergency declaration?

KENNEDY: Good question, number one, Jim, I think if it's litigated and it probably would be, the constitutional issues would be raised. Number two, White House has some good lawyers. My guess is they're not going to act in terms of a national emergency without basing it on statutory power that the president already has.

Now, who gave the president that statutory power? The United States Congress. You can debate whether we should or shouldn't have done it, but we did it. And I've done enough research, I'm not an expert in the area. But I've done enough research to know that if the president decides to go that route, his claims will be heard.

He won't be thrown out of court for frivolous litigation.

SCIUTTO: Senator John Kennedy --

KENNEDY: Look, I'm not recommending, Jim --

SCIUTTO: Sorry, go ahead --

KENNEDY: We ought to work -- we ought to work this out, but just speaking for me personally, I'm not willing to just say to Speaker Pelosi, look, it is possible to secure 1,900 miles of real estate without a barrier because I don't believe that, and I think experience shows that it's not true.

And I think I say this gently and with all the respect I can muster, I think Speaker Pelosi has got to decide here how much -- how important policy is here and how important politics is here. I know she doesn't like --

SCIUTTO: Well --

KENNEDY: The president.

SCIUTTO: To be fair, to be fair, the president will have to decide as well because you know --

KENNEDY: Sure --

SCIUTTO: They get together -- they get the ball over the line, you know --

KENNEDY: Absolutely --

SCIUTTO: Both sides are going to have to work together. Senator John Kennedy, always appreciate you having been on the show, wish you the best of luck.

KENNEDY: Thanks, Jim.

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