MSNBC Hardball - Transcript

MSNBC Hardball - Transcript
Tuesday, November 1, 2005

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MATTHEWS: Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois is the second-ranking Democrat in the U.S. Senate.

Senator Durbin, narrate this for us, this rhubarb between the Senate Democrats and Senate Republicans. Why did you need a special session today?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D) ILLINOIS: Because we've been trying for over a year and a half to get Senator Roberts and the Senate Intelligence Committee to complete the investigation of a very, very important issue, and that was whether any member of the administration misused intelligence to mislead the American people into believing an invasion of Iraq was necessary.

Now, on July 11 of 2004 on "Meet the Press," Senator Roberts said the investigation is underway and it will be done very soon. We've been waiting a year and a half. We did this today to make sure that we're going to have this investigation completed, that the American people will get this important information.

MATTHEWS: What did you learn in the indictment of Scooter Libby, the National Security adviser to the vice president, last Friday?

DURBIN: When did I learn of it?

MATTHEWS: What did you learn of it?

DURBIN: Well, I can say that there was clearly an effort within the White House to silence and discredit critics of this administration, specifically Ambassador Joe Wilson.

The lengths they went to, who was involved, still remains to be seen. But certainly the charges against Mr. Libby are very serious, and as I understand it, he is the highest ranking official in the White House to be indicted in over 100 years.

MATTHEWS: What do you make of the fact that he was charged with lying on many occasions, and he's the guy who made the case to the press that there were WMD of the nuclear type?

He was the one that sold this case to the "New York Times" on background on September 8th of 2002, right before you senators voted.

DURBIN: Well, that's an important issue.

And that's one that this investigation, which we're calling for, will be looking into-whether anyone from the highest levels of the White House through the staff misrepresented the situation in Iraq to mislead senators and congressmen and the American people into believing that an invasion was inevitable.

MATTHEWS: Does it bother you that the vice president was accused in the "National Journal" this week by a Mary Wass (ph) column, that the "National Journal" accused the vice president of holding back information subpoenaed by that committee, the Senate committee; that he never provided the information about the efforts by Mr. Libby himself to build up the case for war in a way that even Colin Powell would not use?

DURBIN: Well, let me tell you, it troubles me but it doesn't surprise me.

Remember, this same vice president went all the way to the Supreme Court to protect the names of the special interest groups that he sat down with to write the energy bill that was considered by Congress.

It's been a very secretive administration.

Fortunately, because of Patrick Fitzgerald's efforts and now because of our efforts on the floor, there's going to be a Senate Intelligence Committee investigation into whether there was a misuse of intelligence.

MATTHEWS: What's the purpose of a debate or an investigation or any kind of hearing on the Hill if the major Democrats in the country, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer, John Kerry, continue to say that even if they did know, even if they were wrong about WMD, even if they knew everything they know today, they still would have given the president the authority to go to war?

DURBIN: I'll let them speak for themselves.

But I can tell you the American people, and certainly the ones I represent in Illinois, want to know the truth. They want to know if any member of this administration distorted intelligence information, misled the American people.

This is as fundamental as it gets in a democracy-whether or not the governed make an informed consent on important decisions like going to war, and we have to get to the bottom of this.

MATTHEWS: The latest poll out yesterday by Gallup said that most Americans, 56 percent believe the vice president knew exactly what his chief of staff was up to.

Do you agree with that?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you, if you rely on the indictment that was handed down against Mr. Libby, you'll know that on June 12, 2003, it was Vice President Cheney who informed Mr. Libby of this Valerie Plame status, that in fact she was a CIA operative.

For reasons I can't explain, Libby went on to contact four or five different people and talk about this subject, and then when he got before the FBI and grand jury said he'd never heard of it until he called Tim Russert in July.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

DURBIN: I can't understand that.

MATTHEWS: Why don't you get the vice president up to the Hill-he's the president of the Senate-and ask him a few questions?

DURBIN: Well, I don't know that we have the power to do that, but certainly it would be an intriguing and very interesting interrogation.

MATTHEWS: That would be one special session of the United States Senate.

Anyway, thank you very much, Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, number two Democrat on the Hill.

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