MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand

Interview

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HAYES: Today the New York Times running front-page piece right about the  fold detailing the complexities the gender plays on women running for the  highest office in the land. "What is not a matter of debate is the array  of ways that sexism can manifest on the campaign trail affecting not only  how voters perceive candidates but how candidates present themselves to  voters."

So far in this 2020 race, there are six women running for the Democratic  nomination for president. Joining me now is one of those women Senator  Kirsten Gillibrand, a Democrat from New York. Senator, it`s great to have  you. I wonder if you read that you read that -- you read that story in  your hometown paper and what your response was to it where there are  flickers of recognition having been through this and been on the trail now.

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D), NEW YORK: Well, yes. There`s obviously  sexism in society and pretty much there`s some level of gender bias in all  industries. But what I loved about the story is the fact that was a  picture of four women on the front page of the New York Times who are  running for president.

HAYES: You know, I wonder how much -- I think about that. How much does  that change the dynamic, honestly? I`ve never seen anything like this.  And you know, there`s been women on stage and presidential debates but  there`s just never been something like this. We`re not -- we haven`t  encountered it before and I wonder what does that do to all of those biases  and those things that are sort of inherent in our politics.

GILLIBRAND: I think it breaks down bias. I think when the American people  get to see a lot of versions of what female leadership looks like, they`ll  begin to understand leadership at all its complexity. I think women can  bring so much to the table. Their life experience is so different, they  often are mothers, daughters, and sisters. They are able to bring people  together in a different way.

A lot of studies show that women are really good at listening, finding  common ground, building consensus and getting stuff done. So I like the  fact that we have six women running for president and I think people will  begin to get more and more comfortable with women as leaders.

HAYES: How much of this historic boom in women presidential candidates  which comes after a historic boom in political candidates up and down the  ballot for the Democratic Party. Is it because of 2016, is because a  Hillary Clinton and because of Donald Trump?

GILLIBRAND: I think it`s a little bit of all those things. I think  certainly Hillary Clinton is a role model for so many women and girls  across the world. She made 65 million cracks in that hardest and highest  glass ceiling on which all of us are building our campaigns and so I think  a lot of it.

But I think this 2018 cycle was a lot about President Trump. I think so  many women felt betrayed by this president because he doesn`t value women.  He brags about sexual assault. He divides women in tweets daily  particularly harsh towards women of color. And I think women across  America just felt they had to be heard. I think that`s what started with  the women`s March and that women started marching globally with every sign 
to say what they were for and then started running. And then women turned out in record numbers to vote for them.

And so I think that dynamic has spurred a rebirth of the women`s movement  unlike anything I could have ever imagined which is inspiring. And having  this whole new class of women, the most diverse class of women ever in the  history of the United States holding President Trump accountable is  refreshing.

HAYES: You know, one of the things you`ve talked about is being the mother  of children and occupying the office you do. And I know I`ve read profiles  of you and how you have navigated that as someone who has three kids at  home, I`m sympathetic to that. One of the things you`re sort of focused on  is the reality of trying to produce a balance for folks men and women in  how they deal with their family life, their domestic life, raising their  kids. You have legislation that seeks to address that. Tell me about  that.

GILLIBRAND: So today we had a press conference on a national paid leave  bill. All about allowing everyone to spend time with their families when  their families need them. So whether it`s a dying or ill parent, whether  it`s a sick child, whether it`s a new baby, allowing men and women to be  able to buy into a paid leave plan, an earned benefit that will be there  for them no matter where they work part-time, full-time, large company,  small company, and it`s not a lot of money.

It`s about the cost of a cup of coffee a week for you and your employer.  It`s about $100 a year per employee. It`s not a great deal of money and it  would allow a national paid leave plan. And you know, Chris, we`re the  only industrialized country in the world that doesn`t have a national pay  leave plan. And if we had one, more men and women would earn their full  potential in the workplace.

Right now not having one as a drag on the economy. You would restore huge  economic opportunity to a lot of families if you had something like paid  leave. And I would add to that affordable daycare, universal pre-k,  raising the minimum wage, all of those things would allow more people to  reach their highest and best potentials in the workplace so they could  provide for their families better.

HAYES: You`ve been I think pretty forthright in a way I found frankly  quite compelling about some users that have changed particular and  immigration. I think you have sort of position yourself as an immigration  skeptic or restrictionist, a hawk earlier in your career. You basically  said I was not right then. I`ve learned a lot about the issue.

What is your thinking about the deal struck today particularly because it  does not do something that Democrats and a lot of activists in the  immigration world had wanted to do, was restrict the number of beds that  ICE can use to detain people that have no criminal history, no reason to  think they`re a security threat?

GILLIBRAND: Well, one of the biggest challenges with this bill and with  the debate is that President Trump has really turned ICE into a deportation  force. And one of the most disturbing things about how he`s handled ICE is  that he`s diverting funding that would normally go to anti-terrorism,  stopping human trafficking, cross-border criminal activity, gun trafficking, drug trafficking and diverting that money to the for-profit prisons that are running these facilities.

And so I`m not surprised that advocates and a lot of folks are concerned  because we don`t want to continue to pay for that because it`s inhumane.  It`s not appropriate. He needs to fix the immigration system. We need  comprehensive immigration reform.

HAYES: Right. But just to -- just to step in for a second. You`re going  to have to vote on it. I mean, this is the deal. This is the thing that`s  going to be before you.

GILLIBRAND: Yes. So the challenge for me is I like the fact that he --  that the deal does include some money for the anti-terrorism work and the  cross-border criminal activity prevention because that`s important to me.  I`m concerned that they are increasing the number of beds or the ability to  fund more of these for-profit prisons. That concerns me gravely. But  there is money for other things that people need across the country and  across New York.

There`s money for infrastructure, there`s money for the census. So they  did try to sweeten the deal, try to put money in where it will help, but  you have to give pause given the investment in this for-profit prison  system that`s locking up children and moms and families.

HAYES: So I`m going to put you down as a not -- a not a yes or a no hard  either way at this point. Is that fair?

GILLIBRAND: Yes. I`m going to -- I`m going to wait till I actually get to  see the bill because we only gotten top lines at this point.

HAYES: Got you.

GILLIBRAND: So I want to see what`s in it and then I`ll decide. But there  are some good things but places of concern.

HAYES: Final question for you. Mitch McConnell is the sort of a funny  turnabout. You know, he could have brought a bill of the floor during the  shutdown and a lot of people think would have passed. But his thing was if  the President is not going to sign it, I`m not going to have bills. We`re  not going to have show votes.

Today he announced that there got a show vote on the Green New Deal,  literally the exact opposite of what he was doing a few months ago when the  government being opened depended on it. Are you going to vote for the  Green New Deal? Do you think this is some brilliant troll by your  colleague from Kentucky?

GILLIBRAND: You know, we`re for what were for. And we want to see a green  economy in the next decade not because it`s easy but because it`s hard. We  need a moonshot. Like John F Kennedy said, we`re going to put a man on the  moon in the next ten years as a measure of America`s innovation and  entrepreneurial spirit, why not make the same national call to action to  say let`s create a green economy in the next decade.

And yes it`s really hard. But part of the Green New Deal, there`s some  really important components like clean air and clean water as a right,  cleaning up all these superfund sites and all these brownfields, making  sure we invest in green technologies and teach young people how to build  solar panels and do wind turbines, and geothermal, and hydropower and biofuels. Like that`s important and exciting, and we have success in New 
York on renewables.

And again, if you invest in the research and development, you put your  plate-- you put your country in a better place to excel in next-generation  development. And we should be competing with China. We should be  outshining China. So there`s so much opportunity in this bill for economic  growth and really fixing things that are broken. And so why not have an  aspirational goal.

And maybe some things are hard to get to and maybe we won`t actually get  there, but why not at least try.

HAYES: It`s a good question. Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York,  thank you very much for making time. Come back whenever.

GILLIBRAND: Thank you.

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