MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mazie Hirono

Interview

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HAYES: All right, Congressman Joaquin Castro on the House Intelligence  Committee, thank you very much. Joining me now Senator Mazie Hirono of  Hawaii, a member of the Judiciary Committee. Senator, do you have -- do  you have a good theory for why so many people around the president have  lied in these high-stakes situations under oath to investigators, to  Congress, and now to the Special Counsel`s Office after having struck a  plea agreement?

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: It`s pretty amazing. So they must have  something very major to hide and I think that this really shows that Trump  surrounded himself by all these people who lie who are basically grifters  and takers.

HAYES: You`re out on the Senate Judiciary Committee and they`re going to  be moving forward with a series of votes on the Attorney General Nominee  Mr. Barr. He will then -- is it your understanding that should he be  confirmed? He will be supervising Robert Mueller, is that correct?

HIRONO: Yes, he will. Although, when he testified, he was in my view  speaking to an audience of one that being Donald Trump. And I think that  he gave out various assurances that would cause the President Trump to  think that that bar would protect his is behind.

HAYES: Are you confident in or concerned about whether he would protect  the President`s behind as you say?

HIRONO: I`m very concerned because what we need right now with everything  that`s going on and continue to be revealed not that the latest of which is  a Manafort, his plea deal being ripped up by the -- by the judge, is that  the independence of the Attorney General is really even more critical than  ever.

And so we have to make sure that not only does he commit to protecting the  Mueller investigation to its end but there are other investigations that  arose out of the Mueller investigations including the Southern District of  New York, at least three U.S. Attorneys` offices and we don`t know exactly  what`s going on with the attorney general`s office in New York. But  there`s just so much surrounding Trump and his associates and what they  were up to that we have to make sure that our attorney general is very  independent.

And he did not show that when totally nobody`s requests -- or requests he  sends a 19-page memo to the attorney general outlining why he thinks a  sitting president should be basically insulated from any charges of  obstruction of justice. And believe me, he made sure that the Trump people  knew about that too because he with the president`s people too.

So for many different reasons, I have serious concerns about what he`s  going to do with regard to the Mueller investigation. He certainly didn`t  commit to disclose the report that will ensue from the Mueller  investigation.
And basically if you look at his background he very much is on the same  page with the you know, with our former attorney general, with Steve Miller  who seems to be calling a lot of the shots on immigration and Trump on a  number of other Trump initiatives and priorities including immigration,  including challenges to the Affordable Care Act, including by the way focusing on voter fraud which is very rare as opposed to voter suppression that is going on in too many states.

And there are any number of reasons that I have series concerns so -- not  to mention he`s not a big fan of the Roe v Wade either. So that`s not the  kind of attorney general that has the kind of independence that we need  from a president who by the way thinks that he has even more power than he  has. Let me just add one more thing, Chris.

HAYES: Yes.

HIRONO: Barr also thinks that the president -- his view of the executive  is what we call a unitary executive which means that there is a lot of  power that resides in the president. And this president always already  pushes pretty much I would say to the Constitution on limits of power and  maybe beyond that we hardly need an attorney general who thinks that he  should have even more power under the theory of a unitary executive.

HAYES: To the question of presidential power, obviously, the power -- the  president has the power under the Constitution to pardon and is essentially  unlimited power or the boundaries of it are a bit up to their dispute. 

Given that the theory put forward by the Special Counsel`s Office in that  unsealed hearing is that Manafort was acting so as to protect a pardon,  from your perspective, what would the consequences be where you wake up  tomorrow and find out the president has pardoned Paul Manafort?

HIRONO: Well, unless somehow the pardon itself can be part of some sort of  obstruction of justice. But as you say his pardon powers are pretty  unfettered and what we`re left with is a president who will do anything to  protect himself. As I said many times, there are only two things that  Trump cares about, one is protecting himself and money.

So you know what could end up is -- aside from by the way, all these other  investigations that are going on, he could be hauled before a jury and a  judge for all these other allegations. Who knows? But I think that the  bottom line might be that he`s going to have to face the voters and  possibly if a Mueller investigation leads to impeachable offenses and the  House will have to make a decision.

HAYES: All right, Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, thank you very much.

HIRONO: Sure.

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