MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries
Interview
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HAYES: Some rare good news out of Washington, a pretty decent piece of legislation passed with broad bipartisan support, and is now going to be signed by President Donald Trump. It`s called the First Step Act, which targets federal mass incarceration and excessively long prison sentences. The final Senate vote was 87-12. It`s expected to easily pass in the House, which has previously passed a similar bill.
It`s the beginning of a corrective to the kind of tough on crime mentality and policy that was pushed to the extreme in the `70s, `80s, `90s, all the way through today. The law would modify sentencing laws and make thousands of inmates eligible for early release or reduction in their sentence, it also expands job training and other programs to help prisoners reenter society.
The bill passed thanks to an unlikely coalition of criminal justice reformers, progressive Democrats and the conservative senators and advocates as varied as the NAACP, the Koch Brothers, and Kim Kardashian.
It was also pushed by a guy in the White House who knows something about the criminal justice system, thanks to his incarcerated father -- or once incarcerated father, Jared Kushner, who is senior adviser to the president.
Joining me how, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries from New York who originally co-sponsored the measure on the House side.
Congressman, a lot of people are scratching their heads, how could something decent come out of this congress? What is your answer to them?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES, (D) NEW YORK: Well, sometimes good things do happen here in Washington, D.C. And it`s been a phenomenal journey, a coalition of the unusual suspects, Democrats and Republicans, progressives and conservatives, people on the left and on the right, the ACLU on the one hand, the Koch Brothers on the other, all working in partnership with the Trump administration, led by Jared Kushner, as you`ve pointed out.
I think what it boils down to is that there is now a consensus recognition amongst a wide variety of folks that the war on drugs has been a failure. We have an overcriminalization problem in America and a mass incarceration epidemic where we have 5 percent of the world`s population, and 25 percent of the world`s incarcerated individuals.
As you know, Chris, we incarcerate more people in this nation, 2.2 million, than any other country in the world. That`s outrageous, that`s a scandal, and finally congress is doing something about it.
HAYES: So, what they`re doing, though, in terms of the scale that your talking about, the vast majority of people behind bars in the U.S. are in state prisons, right. The federal prison is a fairly small part of that. And the number of people that are going to be directly affected this is still yet a fraction of this. Like, basically what do you say to people this is a drop in the bucket?
JEFFRIES: It`s the end to mass incarceration, it`s an epidemic that has been with us for almost 50 years. The failed war on drugs began in 1971. It`s going to take more than a single legislative magic wand to wipe it away, but you have to start somewhere. And this is the first step toward dealing with over
criminalization in America. We`re investing about $325 million over a five-year period of time to make sure that currently incarcerated individuals can get the education, the job training, the substance abuse treatment, the mental health counseling to successfully reenter society, dramatically reduce recidivism, and save taxpayer dollars.
Also, as you pointed out, on the sentencing side, we`ve got substantial reforms that will roll back some of the regressive, tough on crime laws that were first put into place in the `80s and `90s during the height of the crack cocaine epidemic, and make some relief retroactive, so that people who are in prison on unjust sentences will be able to get out.
HAYES: So, the scope of the retroactive relief, my understanding is there was previous iterations of this bill under the Obama administration that did not get very far, that had a broader scope in terms of the retroactivity and that`s smaller under this. What kind of numbers are we talking about with this legislation?
JEFFRIES: Well, the federal system right now is about 180,000 folks who are currently behind bars. We`re talking about thousands of people that we believe will be impacted immediately as a result of the passage, and tens of thousands of folks that will be impacted in a positive way moving forward over time.
In terms of the specific retroactive application, in 2010, congress, under the leadership of Bobby Scott, passed the Fair Sentencing Act, which reduced the crack cocaine/powder cocaine disparity from 100-1, which was morally outrageous and not justifiable, to 18-1. But because Jeff Sessions and the Senate blocked it from being retroactive, that provision was not included in the 2010 Fair Sentencing Act.
The 2018 version of the First Step Act will make the Fair Sentencing Act retroactive so that the people who are impacted by these unjust crack cocaine sentencing laws will finally get some relief.
HAYES: What is your theory about why Donald Trump, with the world view he has, and the politics he has, and the rhetoric he uses to talk about criminals, and law and order, is going to sign this piece of legislation?
JEFFRIES: That`s a great question I get asked a lot about it. And when I was initially on this journey, I had to be convinced first that Jared Kushner was authentically committed to dealing with this issue. First, prison reform, and over time, sentencing reform, as well. And in working with him, along with tremendous leadership from the chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, Cedric Richmond, I think we both concluded that there was an authentic commitment within the administration to deal with overcriminalization within America. Donald Trump would ultimately have to be convinced of that. Jared Kushner was an ally in that regard.
But also more importantly, prior to Trump coming to town, you had the Koch Brothers and the Heritage Foundation and Grover Norquist and Newt Gingrich and the religious right, a wide variety of people, who were working with individuals like Doug Collins to lay the foundation to get something down.
HAYES: All right, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, thank you.
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