MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Jerry Nadler

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

HAYES: The combination of the abrupt resignation of Secretary of Defense  Jim Mattis and the President`s temper tantrum over the wall has led  Washington a distinct era of panic and worry these last two days. But  while the President watches cable news and tweets and we hurtle towards a  shutdown, Democrats in the House are preparing to govern for the first time  in eight years and are inheriting a country that feels like it`s on the  precipice of real honest-to-god crisis.

One of the people who`ll be taking over the gavel, taking on the mantle is  my next guest Democratic Congressman Jerry Nadler of New York. You know,  heady times for you Congressman as you`re about to take this over. First  on the shutdown, if there`s no deal is the -- what`s the plan? Like you`re  going to -- the first day that you get the gavel, the Democrats running the  House will be with a shutdown government.

REP. JERRY NADLER (D), NEW YORK: Well, the plan is to -- is to open up the  government but that requires the president to deal reasonably. And the  president is not being rational now at all. He obviously feels abandoned,  all the people are abandoning him. The wheels are coming off the bus  whether it`s the voters who abandon him in large numbers, gave a great  victory to the Democratic Party or all the people around them who were  testifying to Mueller and turning state`s evidence, his campaign manager,  his deputy campaign manager, national security adviser, his Secretary of  Defense who resigned, his chief of staff who resigned.

He -- and now Fox News and the conservative talk radio, he feels very  beleaguered and that`s why he -- I think he`s turning to his base. Every  time he feels beleaguered he turns to his base to try to do something that  will rally them to him and that`s what this wall fight is all about. It`s  purely him trying to rally some support from his base which is otherwise  deserting him.

HAYES: You`re going to take order the Judiciary Committee and it`ll be the  first time there`s any real oversight exercised in the Trump era. And one  prime concern is the acting Attorney General the United States who is not  Senate confirmed despite the fact he has had that position now for a while.  He has decided unilaterally did not recuse himself from oversight of the  Mueller probe despite the fact that he said all these things about it. He  created this very convoluted process.

In his letter, he says after completing his review and considering all  relevant views which was the professionals in the ethics department and his  other pals, the acting Attorney General has decided not to recuse himself  from the Special Counsel investigation. What are you going to do about  that?

NADLER: Well, the first thing we`re going to do -- first of all, he has to  recuse himself. The professionals told him so. They had first lied about  it and then they came clean later today saying -- or later yesterday saying  that they had -- that he had decided to ignore their advice and to assemble  this at our committee of non-professional ethics people, of nonprofessional  people to give him the advice he wanted. And it`s crystal clear that he`s  put there for the purpose of sabotaging the Mueller investigation. And  that`s why he can`t recuse himself because the President doesn`t want him to and that`s why the president got rid of Sessions whose only sin was 
recusing himself.

Now, we have -- we had a conversation with Chairman Cummings of the  Oversight Committee and I had a conversation with him about two weeks ago  following a number of letters and he agreed to come before our committee --  before my committee in January to testify about this and other questions.  And we -- and we agreed to that and he agreed to that. Now they`ve been  backtracking. They won`t agree to a date. They won`t agree to a time.

So he sent the letter -- I sent the letter to him today demanding that he  set up a time and a date in January when he can appear before our committee  and I said that I hope we didn`t have to use compulsory process to bring  him there. But if we have to we will.

HAYES: Wait. There now trying to not -- I mean he`s -- you`re the  Oversight Committee. You`re the appropriators for that department if I`m  not mistaken. You -- I mean you set the budget and stuff like that. Like  he`s got to show up right?

NADLER: Well, he should show up. And we will -- we will subpoena him if  we have to. They have not said they won`t show up. He said he would in  this conversation with us two weeks ago but we cannot pin him down to a  date at a time and they seem to be backtracking on that.

HAYES: So, do you think they`re just going to ride that out till then? I  mean -- what it seems to me like he learned his lesson from Sessions. It`s  obvious why he`s there for the reasons you indicate and they basically feel  like they can get away with it indefinitely.

NADLER: Well, he can`t get away with not appearing before the committee  indefinitely because we`ll subpoena him.

HAYES: Right.

NADLER: And he has to respond to that and he will. I`d rather he come  before the committee on a less compulsory basis but he will come before the  committee and we will ask him these questions and we`ll take whatever  necessary measures we think appropriate.

HAYES: How do you --

NADLER: And we will -- and we will on the related matter, we will as one  of the first orders of business in January report out of the committee and  pass the House the protective legislation to protect the Mueller  investigation.

HAYES: So that`s a priority. You know, as we were in break, I was looking  at you up here on the screen and I`ve known you and interviewed you over  the years for quite some time. And you now find yourself it`s sort of a  pivotal moment, a kind of fulcrum of history. I mean, you`re the chair of  the Judiciary Committee in 2019 and a year one some very important things  and matters of the greatest constitutional and historical import can come  for your committee. Like, how are you thinking about your role right now?

NADLER: I`m thinking about my role that I have a job to do and that job is  to protect the rule of law, to vindicate the rule of law, and to protect  the United States insofar as we can against the anti-democratic impulses of  the Trump -- of Trump in his administration. We see this anti-democratic  movement in many places around the world and the President has allied  himself with tyrants and other places. We have to make sure that 
democratic processes work here, that the rule of law is paramount, that no one is above the law, and that is what we`re going to do.

HAYES: All right, Congressman Jerry Nadler, incoming Chair of the  Judiciary Committee. Thank you for being here.

NADLER: Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source