MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Van Hollen

Interview

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HAYES: It`s over, folks. It`s over now. We`ve seen Trump meltdowns  before, plenty of them, but this feels different. It feels worse and it  feels more serious primarily because actual things in the world are  changing. Real structural things out there in the world not just Trump.  He is about to lose political power for the first time in his entire  political career after suffering a huge loss in the Midterms. He cannot  control the trajectory of an economy that`s showing some signs of strain.

He`s making rash decisions, he`s lashing out his staff, losing key aides,  and watching the markets go south on his cable news all day long. On top  of all that, he`s now shutting down the government because he can`t get his  way.

Joining me now Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, a Member of  the Budget and Appropriations Committees. Senator, this looks like it`s  going to happen. Everyone has been sent home?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: Yes. Look, this has been a week  where the White House has been in freefall. The President had indicated  that he was going to support that bipartisan Senate agreement that passed  unanimously the other night. And as you said he then pulled the rug out  from under the deal when he just couldn`t take the heat from conservative  talk show host.

So, the House of Representatives is actually already adjourned for the  evening. They won`t come back till 12:00 tomorrow. And of course, the  government shuts down at midnight. So, despite our best efforts to provide  some sanity here, the President seems intent on shutting down the  government.

HAYES: You represent Maryland. Of course, a lot of federal workers in  your state as constituents, I think, some people think that the government  shuts down, they`ll shut down for a week or so and then they`ll open it  back up. At some point, people get back pay. No big deal. What do you  think about that?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, the first thing is that you`ve got a lot of federal  employees who are going to continue to work and then others will be  furloughed. None of them, whether they`re working or furloughed will get  their paycheck. And you know, these are folks like other American  families. They`re having to pay their mortgages or their rent. They`re  having to make ends meet.

HAYES: I mean, it`s December for the love of God. They`ve probably got a  lot of expenses as well.

VAN HOLLEN: I mean, look, this is the holiday season. Obviously, lots of  families are going home for Christmas. This is a terrible time to tell  anybody including hard-working federal employees, sorry the money`s not  going to be going into your bank account for your salary this week. So  that will happen if there`s a government shutdown and the longer it goes  on, the more burden and pain those federal employees will pay for  dysfunction they, of course, had nothing to do with.

I will say that just within the last hour on the floor of the Senate,  Senator Cardin and I did get a bill passed, a resolution passed that would  at least assure upfront federal employees will get paid after the  government shutdown. As you know, that often happens at the end of a government shutdown and people have all that uncertainty during the shutdown period. We`re fighting to stop the shutdown but if the House will pass what the Senate just passed, at least -- at least federal employees will know during this period of time that at the end of the day they will get paid. But that still leaves open the problem you were just talking about, Chris, people having to stretch.

HAYES: So how is -- how do your colleagues see this because here`s -- I  wanted -- this is this is Bob Corker saying we have to talk radio hosts who  influence the president. That`s tyranny, isn`t it? I`m talking about I  guess Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter, although who knows. Here`s the  thing. I`ve covered a bunch of shutdowns, everyone fights over who`s  blaming who always. That`s sort of the way these things go. In this case,  like, we all watch the President say it`s mine, and then watching him today  be like this is on the Democrats and Chuck Grassley tweeting like  Democrats. It just feels almost preposterous. Like we all were there. We  all saw it. Like, are people on the Senate floor pretending they weren`t  there?

VAN HOLLEN: Yes you know, you`re right. This is one of those things where  the President will have a harder time claiming it was fake news since it`s  on video. Not that that stopped him before but he said it so emphatically.  I mean, he took great pride in saying he was going to shut down the  government if he didn`t get his way and he took great pride in saying you  know, he was going to take responsibility and of course he`s reverted to  form, flip-flopping, pointing the finger at everybody else even when he had  already agreed to the bipartisan ideal in the Senate. This is just pure --

HAYES: But wait a second, but that`s -- that is -- that is par for the  course from Donald Trump. What`s weird to me is watching Chuck Grassley  and other people go along with it. Like, are they -- are they -- are they  lying? Like what is your mental model of their behavior in this situation?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, what we`ve seen is the total Trump takeover of the  Republican Party and including a brain meld which is why you saw the House  of Representatives totally outsourced their independent powers, a separate  branch of government to Donald Trump. I mean, it`s like oh well we won`t  move until we hear from Donald Trump. And to see Republican House members  sort of scurrying down to the White House to get their orders is just so  kind of gross when you think of our political system. I mean --

HAYES: You wanted to say pathetic is what you want to say.

VAN HOLLEN: It`s pathetic. It`s pathetic. I mean, it`s just -- these are  people who are sworn to uphold their own constitutional responsibilities  and yet they`ve essentially outsourced their vote to the Press the United  States. In fact, it was just tonight when we`ve been working to try and  get an agreement with our House colleagues, they say don`t talk to us, just  talk the President.

HAYES: Yes. You guys of course -- I mean the funny thing is the numbers  are there. On the first deal, the numbers there to override the veto. Of  course, they`ll never do that but the actual numbers would be there to just  pass the thing, send everyone for the home for holidays and the President  could go golfing at Mar-a-Lago.
Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you for  your time tonight.

VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you.

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