MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

MADDOW:  The year was 2006, and four-term Republican Congressman John Sweeney was running for reelection.  Congressman Sweeney was well-known, not just in his district, not just in his home state of New York, he was also a cherished friend of the George W. Bush White House. 
 
Six years earlier, 2000, as ballot counters in Florida tried to figure out who won the presidential election, it was Congressman John Sweeney of New York who played a key role in dispatching Republican operatives to Florida to where the ballot counting was happening, and he famously ordered them to, quote, shut it down.  Sweeney uttered a three-word order to his troops, shut it down. 
 
He was really the orchestrator of what became known as the Brooks Brothers riot to shut down the ballot counting effort in favor of George W. Bush.  For his efforts that year, President George W. Bush nicknamed him -- his nickname for him was, forgive me, Congressman Kick-Ass. 
 
Congressman Sweeney was also known less favorably for his junkets with lobbyists, and in the spring of that election year, he made national news for being spotted as a grown man at a frat party in Schenectady.  What was he doing there? 
 
By the fall, the party was over for him.  John Sweeney lost his bid for a fifth term in office.  His upstate New York district had not elected a Democrat to Congress in nearly 30 years, but the Democrat they picked that year at the time was interesting.  She was not seen as all that big of an ideological shift because at the time, the Democrat who replaced Congressman Sweeney that year in that district, she had conservative bona fides.  She had an A rating from the NRA.  She said she wanted to make English the official language of the United States.  She opposed amnesty for undocumented immigrants.  She used the phrase illegal aliens when she talked about that issue. 
 
That conservative congresswoman was Kirsten Gillibrand.  Now, Senator Gillibrand, who was not seen as a conservative at all, Senator Gillibrand has had a transformation.  She has changed a great deal on policy in the decades since she was a card-carrying member of the Blue Dog Democrats from an upstate conservative district. 
 
After she was first appointed to the Senate in 2009 to fill Hillary Clinton`s Senate seat when Hillary Clinton went on to become secretary of state, Senator Gillibrand very quickly became not a Blue Dog Upstate New Yorker anymore.  She quickly became a progressive hero.  She became the driving force, for example, behind efforts in the Senate to repeal "don`t ask, don`t tell". 
 
She became a very outspoken advocate for women, starting with victims of sexual assault in the military with an approach that caused friction with some conservatives even in her own party.  She was the first member of her caucus to call for her colleague, Senator Al Franken of Minnesota to resign from the Senate over multiple sexual misconduct allegations against him.  And again, that caused friction with some members of her own party. 
 
Senator Gillibrand`s political journey has taken unexpected turns over the past ten years.  She has been on her own party`s right.  She has been on her own party`s left. 
 
Right now, she is running for president.  She is running for president as the senator who has voted against President Trump and the Trump agenda more than any other senator in the United States Senate. 
 
Why is she running?  Why is she running in this field?  How does she distinguish herself in this field?  And what`s it`s like to have her here on THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW? 
 
Joining us now for the interview, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York. 
 
Thank you so much for coming in, Senator. 
 
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D), NEW YORK:  My pleasure.  Thank you for having me. 
 
MADDOW:  Well, congratulations on your announcement, and thank you for not beating around the bush and being like, I`m thinking about considering, talking to my family about it.  You`re just flat-out saying I`m running. 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Yes. 
 
MADDOW:  Tell me about -- tell me about that transformation that I was just describing there.  I think a lot of people watching the show tonight certainly know your name, certainly know some stuff about you.  But there has been an evolution in the perceived sort of place -- your perceived place on the number line in Democratic politics.  Tell me about that change. 
 
GILLIBRAND:  So, ten years ago when I became senator of New York state, I recognized I didn`t know everything about the whole state, and one of the first thing I did was I travel to Brooklyn, and I met with family who had just lost their daughter, a teenaged girl who was shot with a stray bullet.  And when I meant Nyasia`s (ph) parents and her classmates and realized the pain and suffering that they were going through, I just knew I was wrong, and I knew I had to do something to make sure that young beautiful girl did not die in vain. 
 
So I met with the leaders of various gun reform movements in my state, a lot of moms who had lost their children and experts and wrote a bill to end gun trafficking, because in New York state, one of our biggest problems is 90 percent of the weapons used in crimes come from out of state.  And so, I wrote that. 
 
And now, I`ve been a leader on these issues, making sure we have universal background checks, making sure we can ban assault rifles and large magazines, making sure that we can make sure that people who shouldn`t have weapons never get access to them.  And so -- with the universal background checks.  And so, I just knew I had to do more, and I had to be a strong voice for that family and all the families who suffer from gun violence around my state, and now the country. 
 
MADDOW:  Let me ask you about immigration as well.  I was struck.  You were asked about some of these same dynamics, some of these same changes over the course of your career in an interview with "60 Minutes" not long ago, and you essentially said that you were embarrassed about your previous position --
 
GILLIBRAND:  Yes. 
 
MADDOW:  -- on immigration.  Tell me about that. 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Well, I don`t think it was driven from my heart.  I was callous to the suffering of families who want to be with their loved ones, people who want to be reunited with their families.  I recognize, as we all do, that immigration and diversity is our strength as a country.  It`s always driven our economy.  It`s the American story. 
 
And so, looking back, I just -- I really regretted that I didn`t look beyond my district and talk about why this is an important part of the United States story and why it`s an important part of our strength. 
 
MADDOW:  Coming from -- having changed positions on issues like that, which are so emotive and which are so viscerally felt by so many people, I wonder if -- I mean, obviously, in a Democratic primary, you`re going to have to give explanations like this and you`re going to have the talk from the heart --
 
GILLIBRAND:  Yes. 
 
MADDOW:  -- about why you changed your mind on things like that.  But I wonder if it also having been in a different position on those issues, if it gives you a way to sort of bridge some of these divides that we`ve got between people who have almost a theological division, you`re either pro- gun or anti-gun -- 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Right.
 
MADDOW:  -- you`re either pro-immigrant or anti-immigrant.  Because you`ve gone through that transformation yourself, does it give you way to talk to people who might be more conservative on these issues now? 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Surely.  And I think it all starts with listening, because you can find common ground with anybody on any issue.  I work all the time in the Senate with my Republican colleagues.  I just worked on trying to end sexual harassment with Ted Cruz. 
 
And so, there is literally nobody in the Senate that I can`t work with on something that`s important to all of America and to all of our constituents.  And so, I do believe I can bring people together, and there are shared common values.  And sometimes you have to bring people to where you are, and perhaps on these issues, I can bring people to where I am, because now I know the difference. 
 
I know why you should care.  I know why you should care, even if it`s not in your become yard.  I know why you should fight for other people as hard as you would fight for the people in your own family. 
 
And so, I think I can do that.  I think I can bring people together, because the country is so divided.  The country has been torn apart by this president.  He has brought a darkness of hate and division that I`ve never seen, and only light can end darkness.  Only light can break through. 
 
And that`s why we have to speak to our better angels, not our worst demons, and make people understand that what`s made this country so strong generation after generation is each generation decides to protect more people, to make a more perfect union, to provide more rights for more people.  And we are our best selves when we look to help others. 
 
MADDOW:  Senator Gillibrand, I have a couple of things I want to ask you about.  There is some news today, stuff that`s going on with the shutdown I want to talk to you about.  Some are just questions I`ve never heard you weigh in, some sort of commander-in-chief questions.  Can you stick with us? 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Sure. 
 
MADDOW:  All right.  Senator Gillibrand, her first interview since she announced that she is running for president.  Stay with us.
 
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
 
MADDOW:  We`re back now with Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, newly announced candidate for president of the United States. 
 
Senator, thank you again. 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Thank you. 
 
MADDOW:  As I mentioned in the introduction I brought you on, you do have a voting record in Senate that has a distinction, a sharp distinction which is that you appear to be the senator who has voted against the president, voted against the Trump administration more than any other.  Is that deliberate?  Did you set out to do that? 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Well, I looked at every nominee on the merits, and frankly, each nominee I looked at wasn`t worthy of my vote.  They either had an agenda that was so contrary to our values and what I believe in, or they weren`t plain old qualified in. 
 
Betsy DeVos was not qualified.  She did not have the acumen and background to help fix our schools which, you know, should be right in this country, that no matter what block you grew up on, you can get a good education. 
 
I looked at each nominee, Scott Pruitt.  I voted against him because I knew he would spend his time just polluting the environment, polluting the air and the water, letting polluters pollute and having no oversight or accountability.  He did exactly that. 
 
And so, for each nominee, I looked at the merits and decided, is this person going to help move our country forward or not?  And for the most part, President Trump has really lined his cabinet with people who are absolutely uninterested in helping American people. 
 
MADDOW:  A few nights ago we had here on the show in that seat where you`re sitting there right now an official who until last year, less than a year ago was the top counterintelligence official of the Justice Department.  He ran the counterintelligence section, and he sitting right here described President Trump as a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States.  And you`ve spoken of the president in very clear terms, strong terms even tonight.  You obviously voted against him more than any other senator. 
 
Do you think about this presidency in national security terms, in terms of the president being that kind of a threat?  Or do you think there is something else going on in terms of why you oppose him? 
 
GILLIBRAND:  I do.  I think his judgment is so wrong for this country.  One of the first things he did was decide to step away from the Iran deal, something that the world community came together to say let`s make sure this country doesn`t build nuclear weapons that could result in war, and stepping away -- he steps away from the global climate accords.  It could be the greatest threat to our nation`s future in the next several decades, and to not be willing to stand on the world stage and have that leadership that America has always shown. 
 
The fact that he`s unwilling to hold Russia accountable, that he makes excuses for Putin, he can`t stand up to him in Helsinki, the fact that he wants to walk away from START treaties and nuclear treaties that make us safer.  He is literally creating so much disruption in foreign policy that he is making this country less safe. 
 
MADDOW:  In terms of the president`s involvement in the Russia scandal, obviously, I know that you had to sort of scramble your rollout for your campaign today a little bit because I know you had to make sure you were able to cast your vote on the Rusal sanctions, on the Oleg Deripaska sanctions. 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Yes.
 
MADDOW:  I was interested that 11 Republicans crossed over to vote with you and other Democrats on that.  It wasn`t enough ultimately to reverse the Trump administration`s decision, but I wonder what you think about those Republicans crossing over.  Do you see that as a sign that there might be a less partisan way forward in terms of trying to fix whatever has gone weird between the president and the Russian government? 
 
GILLIBRAND:  I really don`t see the Republican Party standing up and doing what`s right.  The fact that you couldn`t get enough to even pass this one measure, to hold Russia accountable when President Trump wants to unwind sanctions that are absolutely necessary, I`ve not seen their strength and courage to stand up to the president when it matters and when it counts. 
 
And I was exceedingly disappointed that there weren`t enough Republicans to actually pass this very simple -- this very simple measure. 
 
MADDOW:  When you ran in your Upstate New York district in 2006, you ran as an opponent of the Iraq War --
 
GILLIBRAND:  Yes. 
 
MADDOW:  -- in a fairly conservative district. 
 
Today, we saw four Americans killed in Syria.  I know that you have criticized this administration for acting in Syria without congressional authorization.  I wonder if either today`s bombing or the situation in Syria more broadly has affected your overall view about whether or not we should have troops there at all. 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Well, I don`t believe the president has the authority to have the troops there.  We don`t have an AUMF to have combat operations in Syria.  And I know the president will say, oh, well, they`re not in combat operations, but people are dying. 
 
I think we should be drawing down our troops, not only in Afghanistan but the remainder in Iraq and in Syria, and then give Congress the opportunity that if they believe we should be in combat missions in any of these countries, that we actually file a new authorization for the use of military force. 
 
What President Trump has done is just create disarray because he`s not working in combination with our allies and making a plan for how we`re going to create more stability in the region.  Because he is unwilling to hold Russia accountable, because he is unwilling to even engage in Middle East peace in a process that can make sense, we have massive instability. 
 
And the world community is looking at us.  Where is America? 
 
So, one of the reasons why I`m running for president is I want to restore that leadership in the world.  We have to restore the integrity.  We have to restore the stability.  We have to make sure that America continue to be that beacon of light and hope for the world. 
 
And I`m running because we need to fight for each other`s kids as hard as we fight for our own, and I will do that.  And I truly believe that if you believe that, then you`ll fight for health care as a right and not a privilege.  You`ll actually care about public schools and want to help kids no matter what block they grew up on.  And you`re going to actually want to reward work again in this country. 
 
We haven`t looked at workers and rewarded work with national pay leave or equal pay or affordable day care, all the things that would make it easier for workers to excel.  And to get any of that done, you`ve got to take on the corruption in Washington because there are so many systems of power in place today that make it impossible to do what`s right. 
 
Bills are written in the dead of night by lobbyists.  Bills are written by the special interests.  There is so much corruption.  There is so much money and greed. 
 
And unless you`re willing to take that on by, you know, having publicly funded elections.  Actually, that`s why I`m banning corporate PAC money.  That`s why I`m banning lobbyist money.  It`s why I don`t think individuals should have super PACs because my vote is not for sale.  My character, my integrity is not for sale. 
 
And you have to tell the American people that by having bold ideas about how to serve them, to put them first.  And so, that`s what this election is about.  That`s why I`m running. 
 
And I know that I have -- I have the compassion.  I have the courage, and I believe I have the fearless determination to do the things it will take to restore this leadership in the world that President Trump has just walked away from. 
 
It is a moment for all of us, Rachel, to be called to do whatever it takes to make a difference in this country, and I feel called to run this race, to show the strength of America, to show what`s possible in America.  That is our story.  That is the American story. 
 
We never give up.  We try to help others.  We believe in the golden rule, and that`s what President Trump has destroyed. 
 
MADDOW:  Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, running for president, here to talk to us about it very early on in the rollout of this campaign.  Thank you for making time.  Thank you.
 
GILLIBRAND:  Oh, you`re welcome. 
 
MADDOW:  I hope over the course of this campaign, you`ll keep us apprised. 
 
GILLIBRAND:  Thank you so much.  Thank you, Rachel. 
 
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source