MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mazie Hirono

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: Good evening, Rachel.

MADDOW: I am sorry you are still at work right now, first of all.

(LAUGHTER)

HIRONO: So are you.

MADDOW: Yes, well, thanks, but, you know, they usually give (ph) me this  hour.

I have to ask you what`s your understanding of what is going to happen with  the shutdown right now?

HIRONO: It`s going to happen, because the president at the 11th hour  listening Fox News decided that he is going to listen to the, whatever,  called the right wing loud mouths who accused him of being a coward or  whatever it was at the last moment after the Senate had already acted to  keep government running fully, expecting the House to follow suit. At the  last moment, he throws a wrench into the works and says, I won`t sign it  unless I get $5 billion for my wall.

But, of course, you folks have been playing the tape wherein he says yes,  yes, if there is a government shutdown, I will take full responsibility for  it. And, of course, he is not doing that. He is blaming everybody else,  which is par for the course for this president.

MADDOW: And the blame for a shutdown is of course part of the way that we  keep score in this, the way that we ascribe blame both in the moment and in  history as part of the way that we figure out whether this was good  politically or bad politically. But as we head toward it, as it is really  about to happen, I think what most people are thinking right now is, is  there a way out?

I mean, for the president to have staked this shutdown not just on  generally getting more of what he wants on immigration, or even generally  getting more of what he wants on the wall, but specifically $5 billion for  the wall or bust, that kind of very specific line, when we know he`s not  going to get it, makes it very hard for me to imagine how or when the  shutdown will end?

HIRONO: The ball is in the president`s court because he knows full well  that he`s not getting $5 billion for his wall from the Senate or at this  point even from the House. And so, he`s got to grow up. He`s got to face  certain realities and take responsibility, which we know that he has a very  hard time doing.

This is totally -- should have been totally you a voidable, but he is a  person who at the last minute came in after the Senate already voted to  keep government running and for the House to follow suit -- he just jumps  right in and says, I need $5 billion.

This is crazy. And who is going to be hurt? It is all the people who will  be furloughed. It is a partial furlough, but there are going to be a lot  of people who are having to work, the essential people, workers, and they  will not be getting paid. I have signed on to a bill that would provide  for retroactive pay for all of those who are going to have to work during  the shutdown and also for all of those who are furloughed through no fault  of their own, and this on the eve, as you say, of a holiday.

And apparently, President Trump could care less about the damage that he`s  doing and the harm he`s bringing onto our country. But you know what?  This is all about peace.

He has had a rough couple of days. First of all, he pulls us out of Syria,  giving a tremendous Christmas president to Putin and to Iran. So, he is  getting whacked for that from the right -- and all this without consulting  with Secretary Mattis. Then you have the Mattis resignation, you have him  throwing in the wrench to create a government shutdown.

So, I see a president who under even normal circumstances for him, he is  very unreliable, but he is in meltdown mode. And I tell you, the only wall  that`s real is the one that`s closing in on him.

MADDOW: And on that point, and in terms of the other things that are going  on atmospherically around this, I did mention that CNN reporting tonight  that the president reportedly has been -- I mean, reading between the  lines, calling and yelling a of the acting attorney general, Matt Whitaker,  pressuring him on why he`s not reining in prosecutors who are moving  forward on various investigations and prosecutions related to the president  and his inner circle.

What`s your reaction to that?

HIRONO: The president will lash out at anybody that he thinks is not  protecting him adequately. And the president is already being looked at  for obstruction of justice. And now, is he actually wanting the attorney  general to go in there and also obstruct justice by doing certain things  and getting involved and prosecutions?
I find it appalling. But, again, it is par for the course for this  president. He only wants people who will do his bidding. So, that`s not  just Acting Attorney General Whitaker, but right -- following on his heels  is the nominee, Barr, who also, in my view, auditions for this position by  writing this very long missive that question certain parts of the Mueller  investigation.

MADDOW: Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii who is at work at the Senate  tonight as we head towards the shutdown -- thank you very much for your  time tonight, Senator.

HIRONO: Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source