MSNBC "Hardball" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.

Yesterday, House Democratic caucus chair, Hakeem Jeffries tweeted that  there is a national emergency in America, it is called individual one,  (INAUDIBLE), of course, is the term used to refer to President Trump and  his former lawyer Michael Cohen`s court papers.

Anyway, U.S. congressman Hakeem Jeffries joins us right now.

The President has said and in fact we are facing a national crisis, maybe a  national emergency, he might announce that. He may demand expansive powers  outside the normal constitutional role of a President. What to you make of  it?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: There is no national  emergency at the border. It is all made up. It is presidential fiction.  And it`s part of Donald Trump`s efforts to find a lifeline to get out of  this reckless shutdown that he has caused and now is holding the American  people hostage.

The number of apprehensions at the borders right now is at one of its  lowest levels in about two decades. The United States Congress in a  bipartisan way over the last 10 or so years has significantly increased  funding for border security, significantly increased the number of  personnel who are at our border and we are willing to do more, we are just  not willing to acquiesce to a government shutdown and pay a $5 billion  ransom though for Veneval (ph) border wall that will not be effective.

MATTHEWS: The American people are going to watch him tonight, less than  two hours from now, without a filter, no fact checkers, the President  tonight is just pushing his line. What do you want to warn them about as  they watch him?

JEFFRIES: Well, we are concerned that he is going to try to fool the  American people into doing something that would really be extra- constitutional in terms of making a declaration in order to fulfill a  political promise. This is what it`s all about, Chris, at the end of the  day. He promised that he was going to build a border wall and that Mexico  was going to pay for it. It`s clear that the great deal-maker has failed  to convince Mexico to pay for it.
For the last two years, Republicans had control of the House, the Senate,  and the presidency yet no border wall. So now, because of Trump`s  inability to successfully deliver on that political promise, he`s going to  stand before the American people and make up the notion that there`s a  national emergency.

MATTHEWS: Suppose he demands expanded powers tonight, you`re in leadership  now, what can you do about it? What will you do about it?

JEFFRIES: We`ll, I think we`ll be in conversation to make sure that every  available legal avenue, to make sure that this is decided in the courts.  As per Article III of the United States Constitution, when there`s a  dispute between the executive and the legislative branch, and I would  expect that this winds up in the courts. The judges will decide he does  not have this ability to unilaterally declare a national emergency and then  spend billions of dollars on something he cannot get done through the  normal legislative process.

MATTHEWS: Can you enjoin him, can you stop the president of the United  States from shifting those billions of dollars from defense to a wall? Can  you stop him in the act?

JEFFRIES: Well, I think the likelihood is you will see movement for  injunctive relief but ultimately, a federal district court and perhaps D.C.  Circuit and ultimately, perhaps the Supreme Court will have to make that  decision.

MATTHEWS: Are you behind Nancy Pelosi`s position that is -- that building  a wall is an immorality?

JEFFRIES: I strongly stand behind Nancy Pelosi`s position as it relates to  how she`s characterized the situation that we find ourselves in. It`s  immoral, it`s impractical, and it`s not feasible.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about American tradition and the prime-time  address.

I`m older than you. I remember -- I don`t remember Truman and the coal  strike but I can sure remember, as Leon Panetta did -- or does -- Kennedy  coming before the country and saying, we may be at nuclear war in a couple  hours. That grabbed our attention, and it should have.

What`s the president got in terms of gravitas, in terms of the situation?  Is there any smidgen of justification for him to use the prime-time address  on what is basically a partisan issue?

JEFFRIES: None at all.

The office has gravitas, as it should. But this particular occupant of  that office has abandoned that, with all of the chaos, crisis and confusion  that he has subjected the American people to unnecessarily during the last  two years.

It`s unfortunate that he is going to try to utilize the opportunity to  deliver an address from this hallowed office in order to appeal once again  to his narrow base amongst the American people.

MATTHEWS: Thank you, U.S. Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, the chairman of the  Democratic Caucus, a man on the rise, I must say, a person of great  interest to me politically.

I think you`re one of the future leaders of our Congress. Thank you, sir.

JEFFRIES: Thank you, Chris.

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