Fox News "Sunday Morning Futures" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Jim Jordan

Interview

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BARTIROMO: Joining me right now in this exclusive interview, Republican congressman from Ohio. He's the founding member of the House Freedom Caucus. He's also the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee, and serves on the Judiciary Committee as well, Congressman Jim Jordan joining us right now.

And, Congressman, it's good to see you this morning.

REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OH: Good to be with you, Maria.

BARTIROMO: Thanks so much for joining us.

JORDAN: You bet.

BARTIROMO: Can you give us a status check? Where are we in these talks over border security, up against this February 15 deadline?

JORDAN: I don't know that the position is any different today than it was seven weeks ago.

I think the president's right. It is tough to negotiate and get an agreement with people who are more focused on stopping the president than they are on helping the country.

I always say -- remember, 10 years ago, both then Senator Clinton, Senator Obama, both of them said they were for money for border security wall, money for a barrier. And, of course, today, the Democrats have taken just extreme positions.

I mean, we got -- we got Congressman Blumenauer -- Blumenauer from Oregon saying that ICE should be abolished. You got Secretary Clinton, when she ran for president just a couple years ago, saying we need a borderless hemisphere. You got, as the president said, the speaker of the House saying walls are immoral.

And look who's giving the Democrat response to the State of the Union on Tuesday night, Stacey Abrams, who just three weeks ago said she thinks it's OK if non-citizens vote.

So when you -- when you start with that kind of position, it's tough for the president and tough for Republicans to actually get agreement with the Democrats. I don't know that, again, we're any different than where we were a few weeks ago. And the president's probably right. He will have to, I think, at some point go with a national emergency to get the border security wall done.

BARTIROMO: So nothing really has changed. You were among those pushing the president to dig in, keep the government closed. Was all of that worth it?

JORDAN: We were pushing the president to do what we told the American people we were going to do, which was secure our southern border and build a border security wall.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out. What are we on now, the fifth caravan forming, going to be here any day now in Texas? So it doesn't take anyone -- anyone with common sense can see we need a border security wall, we need to secure our border. We need to reform our asylum laws, if we're going to address the problem, if, as the president says every day, I think, if we're going to deal with the drug problem, if we're going to deal with the human trafficking problem, if we're going to deal with the gang problem.

What was it, the bust just this week, 50 -- enough fentanyl to kill 57 million Americans?

BARTIROMO: Yes.

JORDAN: So this is serious. The president understands that.

We were supporting the president and encouraging him to do what he said and to do what we told the voters we were going to do in 2016, when they elected us.

BARTIROMO: Well, we have talked about the fact that Nancy Pelosi has a wall in her own state many times on this program. So it's -- it's a head- scratcher how she could call a wall immoral, knowing that she has this wall in -- separating Tijuana from San Diego in her own state.

Do you think the president will call for a national emergency during the State of the Union on Tuesday night? Should he do that?

JORDAN: I don't know if he will then. I do think, as he said just the other day, he is seriously considering that. I think we may be to the point where he has to do that. But that will be the president's call.

What I know is, the president is committed to securing the southern border, committed to building a border security wall. That's what he told the American people he was going to do. That's why they elected him. And he's committed to getting that job done.

BARTIROMO: So, we understand from senior administration officials that there are five areas that the president is going to touch upon in Tuesday's State of the Union, a safe and legal immigration system. Number two, protecting American workers on trade deals, including China and NAFTA.

Number three, rebuilding America with respect to infrastructure. Four, lowering costs for health care and prescription drugs. And, number five, protecting national security.

Now, the president has talked recently about the fact that a wall is already being built.

JORDAN: Yes.

BARTIROMO: More than 100 miles has already been built.

Where is that money coming from, Congressman? Is there money in government that he can use to begin this build out?

JORDAN: Yes.

Yes, there's some in the Homeland Security budget that he can use right now. And the law allows him to do fencing and to secure the border, particularly when there's a drug problem. Obviously, there is, based on what just happened this past few days ago, this past week, when they -- when there was a drug bust, and 57 -- enough fentanyl to kill 57 million Americans.

So, yes, the president can do that. He's doing that as we speak, I think going to do more of that. But to get the full border security wall done, you either need an appropriation from the legislature, appropriation from Congress, or you need the president to declare the national emergency and do it there.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

So I believe the president said that he's expecting 115 miles to be completed in the near-term future.

JORDAN: Yes.

BARTIROMO: So you're saying part of the money for that is coming from confiscation of drug money?

JORDAN: Well, it's what -- it's in the Homeland Security budget. And it's money that hasn't been appropriated.

Constitutionally, Congress has to appropriate dollars. But money that's there that hasn't been actually spent and appropriated, the president can use that to construct border security fencing under current law.

To build the border security wall, he would need to declare an emergency or Congress would need to pass language which says, we appropriate these dollars for a border security wall. And that's been the hangup. Democrats won't negotiate with us, even though they said just a few weeks ago, you open up the government, Mr. President, we will -- we will negotiate then.

The president says, OK, I will give you one last chance. He opens up the government. And the Democrats and Nancy Pelosi say, oh, nope, we're not for a wall.

BARTIROMO: Well, that must be why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is out, saying, cut -- cut funding for the Department of Homeland Security, because she must know that there's money there that the president can use for this.

How much money are we talking about?

JORDAN: I believe there's $500 million that's -- that's there that he can use now, without any appropriation -- any -- any act from Congress.

BARTIROMO: I see.

JORDAN: Under current law, he can do that.

BARTIROMO: OK, because Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is calling to cut funding for DHS. You know that.

JORDAN: Again, I think it underscores the radical position today's left has taken, abolish ICE, cut funding. Walls are immoral.

We said this. If walls are immoral, Speaker Pelosi, where's the legislation that you have introduced to take down the wall between Tijuana and San Diego? I don't see legislation from Democrats to do that. So it must work there, but, no, no, it can't happen anywhere else.

And then, as I said, the Democrat response to the State of the Union is the gubernatorial candidate from Georgia who said just a few weeks ago that she thinks it's OK if non-citizens vote. That is -- that shows the radical position. And, still, the president is trying to negotiate and get this done for the American people.

But, unfortunately, it's difficult, when they take that -- when they start from that position.

BARTIROMO: Congressman, I want to switch gears and ask you about the Mueller probe, ask you about what you're doing on the Oversight Committee.

Of course, we know that Adam Schiff has a different set of priorities than you do.

So let's talk about -- let's slip in a quick break, Congressman, and then talk a bit about that.

JORDAN: Sure.

BARTIROMO: You have got a lot of hearings on the horizon in the next week.

Please stay with us.

JORDAN: OK.

BARTIROMO: As the ranking Republican on the House Oversight and Reform Committee, we want to get your take on everything about what comes next in pursuing the FISA investigation, and when special counsel Robert Mueller could complete his report, whether it ever will go to the public.

Join me.

And we will be right back with that. And follow me on Twitter @MariaBartiromo, @SundayFutures, as well as on Instagram. Tell us what you would like to hear from Congressman Jim Jordan next up.

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BARTIROMO: Welcome back.

And we're back with Congressman Jim Jordan, the ranking member on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

And, Congressman, we just talked about the State of the Union happening this upcoming Tuesday. We're previewing that today.

Another anticipated event this week was the appearance of President Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen before your committee.

JORDAN: Yes.

BARTIROMO: That's not happening now. Why not? Give us a status check.

You sent a letter to your colleagues at the DOJ to find out why this is being moved. Tell us what you what you want to know.

JORDAN: Well, yes.

We do know he is coming in a closed-door hearing in front of the House Intelligence Committee. But it was supposed to be in an open hearing in front of the Oversight Committee this Thursday. That's been postponed. We don't know if it'll be on or not. Looks like it's not going to happen.

I think it's interesting, though. The Democrats made a big deal of this, having Michael Cohen in an open hearing in front of the Oversight Committee a few weeks back, made a big announcement, their first big hearing, their first big witness coming to testify in front of Congress.

And yet, in 31 days, he's going to go to prison for lying to Congress. So, look, Michael Cohen, we -- we -- our staff met with his lawyer, Lanny Davis. Mr. Davis told our attorneys on the committee that Mr. Cohen couldn't talk about any of the investigations, couldn't -- I mean, so, think about that.

If he can't talk about any of the investigations, what are we going to ask him? So I think it was all designed and still is all designed to come in and have Mr. Cohen say bad things about the president.

BARTIROMO: Oh.

JORDAN: I don't know that that's something that a congressional committee should be doing. We will see if he makes it or not.

BARTIROMO: I see. So this is a lot more bluster and P.R., so that we can have a hearing to hear him trash President Trump.

Let me ask you, because I believe it's almost a year to the day that Adam Schiff, now the head of the Intel Committee, sent a letter disputing all of the things that you and your colleague managed to uncover about FISA abuse, about what the behavior was at this...

JORDAN: Yes.

BARTIROMO: From this cabal of people at the top of the FBI and the DOJ during the 2016 election.

They have been disputing your facts for a year-and-a-half right now. But we learned a lot after the Bruce Ohr testimony. Tell us about it.

JORDAN: No, exactly.

Adam Schiff did his memo one year ago. And, remember, his memo was to try to undermine what Devin Nunes in his memo had to say. And in Schiff's memo, he says this. He says, the Republicans mischaracterized the influence of Bruce Ohr on the whole process and -- and talk about a misleading timeline relative to Mr. Ohr.

When he deposed Bruce Ohr, he said -- he shared three key facts with the FBI that I think disproves Mr. Schiff's memo. He said, first of all, fusion was connected closely with the Clinton campaign, Fusion GPS, who put together the dossier.

He said, my wife, Nellie Ohr, works for Fusion GPS. And the person fusion hired, Christopher Steele, has a deep bias against the president, so much so that Christopher Steele told Bruce Ohr himself -- because Bruce Ohr met with him several times -- that he is -- that Bruce -- that Christopher Steele was desperate to stop Trump.

So, those three key facts -- Fusion is connected with the Clinton campaign, his wife, Nellie Ohr, works for Fusion, and Chris Steele, the guy who wrote the dossier, has a deep bias against the president -- Bruce Ohr communicated that with the FBI, also with the Department of Justice, specifically Andrew Weissmann, who's on Mueller's team.

And the most important fact, Maria, is that he communicated that -- those key pieces of information to the FBI and the DOJ prior to the election, more importantly, prior to when the FBI and the Department of Justice went to the FISA court to get the word to spy on Trump's campaign.

BARTIROMO: So, for...

JORDAN: That is huge.

BARTIROMO: Yes, that's huge, because, for a long time, Adam Schiff has been saying, oh, they didn't know that this was a Clinton-paid-for document, they found out after September.

But we know from this testimony that, in fact, meetings were happening as early as July of 2016.

JORDAN: Adam Schiff specifically says in the memo that Bruce Ohr's communication with the FBI with anything relative to the dossier took place after the election and after the October 21 FISA application was taken to the FISA court.

That is not accurate, based on Bruce Ohr's testimony to us in his deposition.

BARTIROMO: Well, you are now in the minority. You no longer have subpoena power on the Republican side.

Where's the accountability for this?

JORDAN: Well, we're going to keep doing everything we can as Republicans.

You're right. I don't think Jerry Nadler and Elijah Cummings are going to push and try to get to the bottom of this. But we're going to keep doing everything we -- we -- that we think needs to be done to get the truth out to the American people.

We have specifically asked the Justice Department to give us the OK to release all the transcripts from Andy McCabe, to Bruce Ohr, to Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Nellie Ohr, all the people we have talked to. We have asked the Justice Department for that. We're still waiting on that.

We also need to know what Mr. Huber is up to, frankly, John Huber, who was appointed to look at the -- the -- how the Clinton investigation was handled in the Justice Department, and, maybe more importantly, how the FISA process -- were their abuses in how this FISA was done specifically relative to Carter Page?

BARTIROMO: Well, last week, we had your colleague Congressman Devin Nunes on the program.

And he said, look, he's happy that the DOJ is recognizing that lying to Congress is a crime, as -- which is the reason Michael Cohen is going to jail, but that maybe you should start questioning and bringing back people like the list you just named, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Andrew McCabe, because did they lie to Congress?

JORDAN: Well, there's some discrepancies that -- there's some things we will have to look at in their -- in their -- in their testimony.

I think there's some concerns there. We do know that Jim Baker, former chief counsel at the FBI, is the subject of an investigation by the Justice Department. And, obviously, Andy McCabe is also under investigation by the Justice Department.

So we will see how those two cases shake -- shake out as well.

BARTIROMO: What -- what is your take on Bill Barr coming in as the new attorney general? Will he seek the truth?

JORDAN: I hope so. I have not spoken with Mr. Barr.

I think he did a nice job in his confirmation hearing. I think he will get confirmed here sometime, I believe, in the next week-and-a-half. So, we look forward to him getting to that position and looking at all this information we have uncovered in our congressional investigation.

It's important that, I think, he examine everything. Remember, we have interviewed 14 witnesses over the last year. It started with Andy McCabe in December of 2017, all the way up through Loretta Lynch in December of "18.

And all the key players in -- Jim Baker, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Bruce Ohr, Nellie Ohr, all the key players in between, there's some important information that I -- that I'm sure and I hope that Mr. Barr will look at and then move from there.

BARTIROMO: Within Adam Schiff's letter, his response, it says that Bruce Ohr was a minor player.

JORDAN: Not true.

He met with -- he met and talked with Christopher Steel and Glenn Simpson, Glenn Simpson, the founder of Fusion GPS, and Christopher Steele multiple times. And after each and every encounter that he had with Christopher Steele or Glenn Simpson, he went directly to the FBI and briefed them on what that conversation was about.

At least 13 times, he did that. He wasn't a minor player. In fact...

BARTIROMO: Yes.

JORDAN: ... he took evidence. He was part of the chain of custody of evidence, certain things that he took from his wife and from others and then passed to the FBI as part of this investigation.

BARTIROMO: Real...

JORDAN: He's a major player.

And -- and for Adam Schiff to try to downplay his influence is absolutely wrong.

BARTIROMO: Really quickly here, Congressman, Robert Mueller's report, when are you expecting it? Can it be credible without him looking at what you have called FISA abuse?

JORDAN: Well, I think there's real concerns with how the FISA process was handled. We will see when it comes public.

What I do know is, also, another big hearing this week, Matt Whitaker, the acting -- Matthew Whitaker, acting attorney general, will be in front of the House Judiciary Committee on Friday.

These are some questions we plan to ask him as well, see if he will give us any indication of when Mr. Mueller's report will in fact be completed.

BARTIROMO: Because I believe it was he who said it's getting close.

JORDAN: Yes, Matt Whitaker did.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

JORDAN: He said it was getting close.

And we will ask him. I'm sure he will get asked about that this Friday, when he's in front of House Judiciary Committee.

BARTIROMO: We will be watching that.

Thanks very much, Congressman. Good to you see this morning.

JORDAN: You bet, Maria. Thank you.

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