Fox News "Sunday Morning Futures" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. John Ratcliffe
Interview
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BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
Now reaction from the other side of the aisle. 2 I want to bring in Republican Congressman from Texas John Ratcliffe. He sits on the House Judiciary Committee, as well as the House Homeland Security Committee, where he chairs the Subcommittee on Cybersecurity. He's also a former federal prosecutor.
Congressman, it's always a pleasure. Thanks for joining us this morning.
REP. JOHN RATCLIFFE, R-TX: You bet. Good morning, Maria.
BARTIROMO: First off, you just heard Congresswoman Debbie Dingell. Your reaction to the special counsel, in a very rare move, coming out and refuting that BuzzFeed report which was all in the headlines, top headlines, and on all the news last week that the president had directed Michael Cohen, his former lawyer, to lie for him to Congress?
RATCLIFFE: Well, I'm glad the special counsel did it. It was the right thing to do. He deserves credit for that. I think the president gave him credit for that.
I guess the question that I would have Maria, is why now, almost two years into the special counsel's tenure, does he take this extraordinary action to correct a fake news or false news article about the special counsel, when there have been a dozen of them over the last two years?
So is that just a coincidence? Or does it have something to do with the fact that that happened two days after an attorney general nominee said for the first time, I'm going to grade the special counsel's homework, and I'm going to get to the bottom of all of this and bring a fair and expeditious conclusion to this matter?
BARTIROMO: Yes.
RATCLIFFE: So I don't think it's as much of a coincidence, as it is a cause and effect of what happened earlier in the week at the attorney general's confirmation hearing.
BARTIROMO: Yes, I want to -- I want to get back to Bill Barr's confirmation hearings and get your take on the timing, when he might be confirmed. First week in February, I think, is what we talked about.
But let me get your take on this, because you never bought into that story that BuzzFeed reported, right? You never believed that the president asked Michael Cohen to lie?
RATCLIFFE: No.
Listen, if there was a conspiracy with the president of the United States to lie to Congress, that's the first thing Michael Cohen would have led with months ago, and it's the first thing the special counsel would have included. Michael Cohen wouldn't have pled to lying to Congress. He would have led to a conspiracy to lie to Congress that involved the president.
So I never for a second thought there was anything to that BuzzFeed story. And I'm glad the special counsel corrected the record.
BARTIROMO: So the fact that -- is now we're learning him say, oh, I was directed by the president, after he's already been sentenced. He's going to go to jail for lying to Congress.
OK, let me move on, because we did also get some revelations from Bruce Ohr's closed-door interview with you and your colleagues, transcribed interview, with congressional investigators.
And I want to talk about that, because it really does put a spotlight on something whereas the people on the left and your detractors in terms of saying, this is nonsense -- Jim Comey continues to call all of this nonsense.
You just -- we had Jim Himes on last week, one of your colleagues on the Intel Committee. And I talked about FISA abuse with the Democratic congressman. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: We know that there was real FISA abuse, where the FBI didn't tell the FISA judge who paid for the dossier, that it was a political document, et cetera.
Are you going to pursue that? Are you going to seek the truth there?
REP. JIM HIMES, D-CONN.: Maria, that's -- that's not accurate. And I have looked at every single one of the FISA affidavits.
BARTIROMO: What is not accurate, sir?
HIMES: That the Justice Department in any way misled the judge.
I understand that that's the Republican talking point, but that's...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: Congressman, your reaction?
RATCLIFFE: Well, my reaction is that Jim Himes probably wishes he'd waited a week to come on your show, because, as you said, Maria, Bruce Ohr, parts of his testimony became publicly available this week.
And he said just the opposite of what Jim's -- Jim Himes told you. Bruce Ohr raised his right hand and, under penalty of perjury, said what the FBI and the Department of Justice knew and when they knew it about Christopher Steele and the Steele dossier.
And, again, it's the opposite of what Jim Himes said last week. It was the opposite of what Adam Schiff put in a memo that he released to the American public last year on that subject.
But, then again, those of us on Capitol Hill know that when -- Adam Schiff and the truth have always had a very strained relationship and haven't always gotten along very well.
BARTIROMO: Well, Adam Schiff was out talking about him seeking the truth in other areas, but nothing about this.
Let's go through these transcripts, because you say to Bruce Ohr: "OK, so, again, so the record is clear, what the Department of Justice and the FBI were aware of prior to the first FISA application was your relationship with Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson, your wife's relationship with Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson, Mr. Steele's bias against Donald Trump, Mr. Simpson's bias against Donald Trump, your wife's compensation for Glenn Simpson and Fusion GPS, correct?"
And then he answers you, say -- his lawyer gets -- gets involved and says: "Can I have a second?"
Then Mr. Ohr, Bruce Ohr, answers you and says: "Right. So, just again, to reiterate, when I spoke with the FBI, I told them my wife was working for Fusion GPS. I told them Fusion GPS was doing research on Donald Trump. You know, I don't know -- I -- know if I used the term opposition research, but certainly that was my -- what I tried to convey to them."
So explain this exchange and what you got from it.
RATCLIFFE: Well, remember, Bruce Ohr is the number four person at the Department of Justice at the time.
And why this is important, Maria, is what we have been hearing from Jim Himes and from Adam Schiff, and, frankly, from the FBI and the Department of Justice was that the FBI and the Department of Justice really didn't know much about the Steele dossier until much, much later, in the fall of 2016.
Bruce Ohr said under oath that, before the Russia investigation was ever opened, on July 30, 2016, he sat down with Christopher Steele. He knew that Christopher Steele had put together this dossier, at the direction of Hillary Clinton and the Democrats.
He knew that Christopher Steele was biased and determined to stop Donald Trump. And that's why he wasn't willing to vouch for the credibility or the reliability of Christopher Steele and the dossier. And we know that he told that to the number two person at the FBI, Andy McCabe, then Lisa Page, then Peter Strzok, then Andrew Weissmann, most of whom ended up on Bob Mueller's special counsel team.
So, again, all of this flies in the face, most importantly, of what was submitted to the FISA court months later. None of this was revealed.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
RATCLIFFE: None of this was disclosed. And that's why it's so significant.
BARTIROMO: And yet the first hearings of the House Democrats that is coming up, they are bringing the witness to the floor Michael Cohen.
And that's going to happen when? When is this -- that testimony happening, sir?
RATCLIFFE: February 7.
BARTIROMO: OK.
So they are looking at something different than what we are getting from these documents in terms of who said what and knew what, when, and the malfeasance at -- at the top of the FBI?
RATCLIFFE: Yes.
You have to ask yourself, if you're interested in finding the truth, would the first witness that you bring in be someone to testify to Congress right before he goes to prison for testifying to Congress untruthfully?
That's not where I would go.
BARTIROMO: OK, I want to ask you where you would go.
We're going to take a short break, because I know that you have some ideas in terms of peeling back the onion even more.
And then I have got to get your take on the Bill Barr hearings, the William Barr hearings last week, in terms of whether or not the incoming A.G. will be following the truth and seeking the truth in this regard.
Stay with us, Congressman Ratcliffe. We will be right back with that.
RATCLIFFE: You bet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: Are you aware that Mr. Ohr's wife worked for that organization?
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I have read that.
GRAHAM: Does that bother you if he had anything to do with the case?
BARR: Yes.
GRAHAM: Are you aware that, on numerous occasions, he met with Mr. Steele while his wife worked with Fusion GPS?
BARR: I have read that.
GRAHAM: OK.
The warrant certification against Carter Page on four different occasions certifies that the dossier, which was the main source of the warrant, was reliable. Would you look into see whether or not that was an accurate statement and hold people accountable if it wasn't?
BARR: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: That was the hearing for William Barr, incoming A.G.
I'm back with Congressman John Ratcliffe.
Your reaction to that? And what is the timing for Bill Barr to get confirmed, in your view?
RATCLIFFE: Well, my reaction is, I don't know Bill Barr, but the people that I hold in high esteem, like former Attorney General John Ashcroft and Michael Mukasey, hold him in high esteem.
Reputations only are good indicators of future conduct. But it's not a promise of that.
What I heard Lindsey Graham do there was get a promise from Bill Barr that, if he becomes the attorney general nominee, he will get to the bottom of this and that he's concerned about FISA abuse. And so I'm very heartened by that.
And I think the American people should be there's an attorney general nominee who is interested in finally getting to the bottom of all of this.
BARTIROMO: Yes, and I guess that empowers you, as a congressman on the Judiciary Committee, to hold him to account to pursue the truth.
RATCLIFFE: Absolutely.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
RATCLIFFE: We have been pushing hard on these issues.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
RATCLIFFE: And that's why it's critical.
BARTIROMO: And you want to see Sally Yates testify.
RATCLIFFE: I do.
That's the perfect example of why. Let's bring in the former deputy attorney general, Sally Yates, who signed the first FISA application. Let's ask why she verified an unverified dossier, according to her own deputy, Bruce Ohr.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
RATCLIFFE: Why she verified that Christopher Steele was reliable and credible, when her own deputy, Bruce Ohr, had questions about Christopher Steele's reliability and credibility.
None of that was disclosed to the FISA court. My guess is that Sally Yates is probably going to say, I wasn't aware of those facts. And if that's what she says, then there's going to be a whole bunch of work out there for a whole bunch of criminal defense lawyers.
BARTIROMO: Congressman, it's good to you see this morning. Thanks very much. We will be watching the developments.
RATCLIFFE: You bet. Thanks, Maria.
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