NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chuck Schumer

Interview

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CHUCK TODD:

Good Sunday morning. As if we needed another reminder, this week illustrated, again, just now not normal the Trump presidency has become. President Trump's lawyer sentenced to prison. His chief of staff, his second one, mind you, is out. A routine photo op with leading Democrats turned into a taunting schoolyard smack-down. We're less than two years into Mr. Trump's first term. And just take a look at all the president's investigations, among the targets, the Trump campaign, the Trump Transition Team, the Trump inauguration committee, the Trump family, the Trump Organization, and the Trump Charitable Foundation, Trump associates and finally, President Trump himself. Essentially, everything he's touched his adult life is under investigation. All of this may be taking a toll on the president. We have a brand-new NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll out this morning. On the Russia investigation, 62 percent say President Trump has not been honest and truthful.That's a growing number in our poll. And it's across the board, Democrats, independents, and Republicans. Just 34 percent say he has been honest and truthful. Forty-five percent want to see the investigation continue. Thirty-four percent, familiar number there, would like to see it end. And as if all this wasn't enough, on Friday night, word came that a federal judge in Texas had struck down the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, and said it was unconstitutional. The judge ruled that the individual mandate is unconstitutional, now that there is no tax associated with it. It got zeroed out during the tax bill package, and that therefore, the entire law now has to go. Now, Republicans have sought to kill the Affordable Care Act since its passage. And the suit was brought by Republican governors and attorneys general. But the ruling comes as Obamacare, as it's colloquially known, is now more popular than ever. And it helped Democrats flip 40 House seats in November. So looking ahead, multiple investigations, a new fight over health care, a trade war with China, a possible recession, and we haven't even mentioned the chances of a government shutdown at the end of this week. Happy holidays, everyone. Joining me now is the Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer of New York. Senator Schumer, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Morning. Good to be back, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

All right, let's start with the health care ruling. The assumption is there's going to be appeals. How does -- how do you appeal this law? Do you appeal the specific argument about the mandate or the entire ruling? Or is it on severability? Where do you, where do you attack this decision?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Okay, well, first, Chuck, it's an awful ruling. It goes -- of course, it undoes pre-existing conditions. It jeopardizes the tens of millions who are getting good health care in the exchange. But it goes way beyond that. It would knock out funding for treatment of opioids. It would raise drug prices and close the donut hole, so seniors would pay more for drug prices. It would eliminate a lot of maternal care, all kinds of women's health. It's an awful, awful ruling. We're going to fight this, tooth and nail. And the first thing we're going to do, when we get back there in the Senate, is urge -- put a vote on the floor urging an intervention in the case. The judge -- a lot of this depends on congressional intent. And if a majority of the House and a majority of the Senate say that this case should be overturned, it'll have a tremendous effect on the appeal. So our first stop is the courts. We believe this should be overturned. It's an awful, awful decision. And it puts a lot of our Republicans in a box. Because they sort of were, once -- you know, two-faced. On the one hand, they said they want to preserve pre-existing conditions and preserve health care. On the other hand, Donald Trump and a large number of Republicans brought this court suit. So there are going to be a good number of Republicans who are going to really have to make a decision whether to join us in this intervention or face very severe consequences.

CHUCK TODD:

Are you open to finding a compromise with Republicans? Let's say this -- let's say your prospects don't look as good in the courts as you might think that they do. Do you try to work with them to bring the, bring a penalty back on the mandate, if that's what it takes? Do you work with them to figure out a plan that eliminates the mandate? Where are you on this?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Well legislation, when it comes to health care, as we have seen, is very difficult. And the president and a large number of Republicans are actually for cutting back on health care. That's what they've done for two years. We have a divided House and Senate. I think the courts have to be the first and best way to go.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me ask you this about the courts, by the way. Brian Fallon, somebody who used to work for you, by the way, he tweeted the following. He said, "The judge who ruled in favor of gutting Obamacare was confirmed by voice vote. Remember that the next time Democrats cut a deal with McConnell on judges and defend it by saying, quote, 'They were all noncontroversial nominees.'" This judge, by the way, confirmed in 2007, when Democrats were in control of the United States Senate. Do you regret the way you guys voice voted this judge?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Look, you never know how a judge is going to vote, ten years later. But this was an awful, awful decision. And it has to be overturned. There's also, you know, an element, I don't know how you deal with this, but forum shopping. The Republicans chose this court and this bench, because they thought they might get this way-out-of-the-mainstream ruling from this judge, who's done it before.

CHUCK TODD:

You brushed off that -- you brushed off this judge issue very quickly. Look, that was part of a deal you were a part of cutting back in '07. Was that a bad deal?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

No, there was no deal, I don't think, on this judge. He was a nominee to the district court. No one brought up anything. No one knew how he'd rule in the future. And you know, it's an awful ruling. Let's make no mistake about it.

CHUCK TODD:

Some progressives, as you know, and maybe even some senators in your own caucus, are going to say, "Okay, here we go again with the Affordable Care Act. And it was a flawed enterprise, anyway." Here's what Adam Green, founder of Progressive Change Campaign Committee writes. He says, "Democrats need to put a bright north star in the sky for 2020 voters, showing what Democrats would do with more power and making clear that we're moving toward Medicare for all, as a big part of a 2020 electoral strategy. It seems pretty clear that the presidential nominee, whoever it is, will support Medicare for all." Do you think it's time for Democrats to push this?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Look, Democrats are for universal access to health care, from one end of the party to the other. We want more people covered, everyone covered. We want better health care at a lower cost. People have different views as to how to get there. Many are for Medicare for all. Some are for Medicare buy-in. Some are Medicare over 55. Some are Medicaid buy-in. Some are public option. We're going to have to do a lot more on health care. It will be a major issue in 2020. And I believe Democrats will coalesce around the best way to get the best health care for the most people.

CHUCK TODD:

Where are you? Do you think you should spend more time fixing the Affordable Care Act or launching a new health care proposal?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Well, we first have to undo this awful decision. Because look, we have a Republican president. We have a Republican Senate. They've spent a lot of time sabotaging health care. So that's the first job. But after that, Democrats, as we did in 2018 rather successfully, are going to make health care a major, probably the major, issue in the upcoming campaigns and as we act in Congress. And we're going to force our Republican colleagues, now that this decision has sort of lifted up their hypocrisy, to choose a side. Are you for the American people, working people, for more and better health care? Or are you going to continue to cut it?

CHUCK TODD:

I know you --

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Same with Trump, same with President Trump, by the way.

CHUCK TODD:

I know you're very, I know you're very careful about putting your view here, now that you're the leader of your, of the Senate conference there. Are you going to support Medicare for all, Senator Schumer?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Look, as I said, there are lots of different routes. I'm going to support a plan that can pass and that can provide the best, cheapest health care for all Americans.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to move on to the issue that may lead to a government shutdown. It is immigration. I want to play something you said in 2009 on the Senate floor. Take a listen.

[BEGIN TAPE]

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

People who enter the United States without our permission are illegal aliens. And illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who enter the U.S. legally.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Apologies, you said that at Georgetown Law School, not on the floor of the Senate there.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

That's okay.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, you know.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Some people at Georgetown would think it's even better to say it there.

CHUCK TODD:

That is so true. Senator Schumer, do you still believe in that principle?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Of course. No Democrat believes that there's no difference between legal and illegal immigration. We Democrats -- we're for a path to citizenship, however, not amnesty, a very difficult path to citizenship. In 2013, every single Democrat voted for it. A whole bunch of Republicans, led by John McCain, voted for it. And it was thwarted in the House. So we want, we want to create a path to citizenship for those illegally. But we don't think they're the same.

CHUCK TODD:

Is there any way you budge at all in your number on border security, on the $1.6? We know you don't want to give him the $5. Is there anywhere in the middle here? Is there any middle ground that you would be willing to inch over to, that you think could get 60 votes in the Senate?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

President Trump should understand, there are not the votes for the wall in the House or the Senate. He is not going to get the wall in any form. Even the House, which is a majority Republican, they don't have the votes for his 5 billion dollar wall plan. In fact, Ryan, afraid of what's going to happen, sent all the House home, until Wednesday night, a day and half before the -- two days before the shutdown. And they certainly don't have the votes in the Senate. Now, we Democrats, Leader Pelosi and I, offered the president two options as to how to avoid the shutdown. And we should not let a temper tantrum, threats, push us in the direction of doing something that everybody, even our Republican colleagues, know is wrong. Leader McConnell has said we shouldn't shut down the government. Chairman Shelby has said we shouldn't shut down the government.

CHUCK TODD:

I understand that --

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

And they should join us in one of these two proposals, which would get more than enough votes passed and avoid a shutdown. Then, if the president wants to debate the wall next year, he can. I don't think he'll get it. But he shouldn't use innocent workers as hostage for his temper tantrum to sort of throw a bone to his base.

CHUCK TODD:

What you're saying is there's no wiggle room here. It's those two options, or that's it.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Oh -- no -- well, those two options are the kinds of things that Republicans have supported in the past. And when you talk to them privately, even publicly, a lot of them have said, a CR is much preferable to a shutdown. They just have to have the guts to tell President Trump he's off on the deep end here. And all he's going to get, with his temper tantrum, is a shutdown. He will not get a wall.

CHUCK TODD:

Before I go, I want to ask you about the prospects of impeachment. In the last two weeks, we've learned that the president directed Michael Cohen to commit felonies. At what point do you believe that House Democrats -- you were on the House Judiciary Committee in 1998, so you're very familiar with this. At what point are House Democrats obligated to open an impeachment inquiry? Nobody says that you vote for impeachment. But are they obligated to start one?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Well, I'll give you my view. We should make sure that Mr. Mueller is unimpeded, that he finishes his investigation. And we should make sure that that report is public. And then we should make a decision on the totality. As you know, impeachment has a lot of different ramifications. We certainly think no president is above the law. But I think it's wise to wait for the report. More and more people are believing in Mueller. Fewer and fewer people, as your survey showed, believe the president. Let's get the report. And let's read it, let it go public. And then let us decide.

CHUCK TODD:

Is it an asset or a liability if you have the first name of "Senator", if you run for president in 2020?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Well, we have a lot of good senators running. And there are a lot of good non-senators running. To my view, let a thousand flowers bloom. Let everyone run. And let's see who is the best candidate. I do believe this, that Democrats are going to be guided by who can best beat Trump, because he's such a danger to the nation, to the middle-class, to the working-class people of America. So I think, at the end of the day, there's going to be more unity than people think.

CHUCK TODD:

Sounds like you think electability should be first and foremost.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Well I think that will -- what I'm saying is I think the voters will believe that.

CHUCK TODD:

Fair enough. Senator Schumer, Democratic leader in the Senate, thanks for your time and for sharing your views on Meet the Press.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

Chuck, good to see you. And can I make one little plug? Go Giants! Go Giants!

CHUCK TODD:

Okay, as you fight for your non-playoff spot. Fair enough. Thank you, sir.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:

You never know. You never know.

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